Odex is just about the only company in South-East Asia that licenses anime, but unfortunately their products are pretty low quality and few people buy them. They also maintain a low profile in the Singaporean anime community with virtually zero presence in anime-related events and online communities.
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Recently, Odex hinted that they are teaming up with IPOS to catch anime downloaders in Singapore, sort of like RIAS (Singapore’s RIAA) except for anime. Feeling bored, I sent them an e-mail regarding this rumour exactly one week ago but apparently Odex does not have the habit of checking their inbox, or perhaps they have a filter that automagically redirects everything into the spam box.
Well, here it is…
Hi,
I am DarkMirage, the owner of darkmirage.com. I run one of the more well-known anime blogs in Singapore and I have been involved in the online anime community for quite some time. I write to you with regards to some recent rumours regarding your company and your company’s operations in general.
There have been reports recently that Odex is going to team up with IPOS to target anime downloaders in Singapore. This was first reported in the community by a source close to your company and subsequently confirmed after the recent focus group by kwok, the owner of the blog lolicontrol, who participated in it.
Although I can understand your concerns, I disagree with this decision. But I am sure you have already heard similar objections from many sources so I will move on as this is not what I want to talk about.
The issue I am trying to raise was actually brought up by another local blogger, albeit in a blunter manner.
If you overlook drmchsr0’s usual over-dramatization of the issue, there is an important point to note. Your company has never been engaging the community. Unlike American distributors with their anime conventions, you do not appear at local events. I have met employees of American companies, such as ADV, online and they participate in forum discussions and community events just like the rest.
A recent example would be Bandai’s asosbrigade.com viral marketing campaign for Haruhi Suzumiya. I created a parody site at code-geass.com and the person in-charge of the site at Bandai actually added me to his MySpace friends. The fans KNOW that Bandai cares. We know that Bandai has been reading forums and anime blogs for feedback. The little things count.
When American fans are unhappy with something, they know where to find the people to speak to. Your recent focus group is about the only thing similar in nature that I have ever heard of from your company. I know of local anime fans who do not even know your company’s name.
The issue with IPOS is yet another side-effect of this isolation. You have your reasons for making such a decision, but you have to tell us what they are and keep us informed. But you don’t. Instead, we have to rely on rumours and second-hand information to get a vague idea of what Odex is really up to. And when we do that, the conclusions we come to are most definitely NOT in your company’s favour.
The same goes for your DVD releases. No one knows anything about your products until someone notices them on a LaserFlair shelf. You can hardly blame poor sales on downloaders alone (or at all). The lack of publicity on your part is just inexcusable, it’s almost as if you don’t want to sell those DVDs. The least you can do is to keep your website updated.
Because of your company’s isolation from the rest of the anime community in Singapore, you are seen as an outsider. In America, there is genuine support coming from the fans for the companies there because they feel that the companies pay them the respect they deserve as the consumers. The credits at the end of promotional video on asosbrigade even thanked fansub watchers who support the DVD releases. That means a LOT to the fans who obviously downloaded the fansubs (illegally you might say) and are now eagerly awaiting the R1 Haruhi DVDs’ release.
On the other hand, Singaporean fans view Odex as a non-entity that is outside the community. I have not met a single person who is looking forward to your Haruhi release, which may or may not exist at all since all we know about your future releases come from anonymous rumours. Personally I am looking forward to the R1 release which I plan on getting and I already own the R2 set. But I can’t say the same for Odex’s release.
It all boils down to a PR problem. Your company’s behaviour rubs fans the wrong way and you do not make any (noticeable) attempts at engaging us and addressing our grievances. The impression we get from past experiences is that Odex hates us. You do not bother to correct this impression, so we assume it to be true. You cannot expect local fans to support your products in a situation like this.
I have a very simple suggestion for Odex: create an official blog. You can post all your new releases and acquisitions there and keep us updated what the hell is going on so that we do not have to rely on rumours. When the fans are unhappy with something, we can bring it up there and get a discussion going. Some problems may not be so easily resolved, but at least we will know what is Odex’s official stand instead of making assumptions that are usually negative.
It does not take a whole lot of effort to maintain a blog and the benefits to your PR are enormous. All you have to do is to let the fans know what you are doing. Look at how the Japanese companies do it. Hell, if you cannot find someone to do it, I can even volunteer darkmirage.com for it. Free of charge even, if money is your concern (which it often seems to be).
I dare say that if you do go ahead with the IPOS plan, you will not see the slightest increase in sales. On the other hand, if you engage the community through a blog, forum discussions, feedback sessions and by participating in anime-related events such as Cosfest, support for your products and brand will build up naturally.
For the sake of the local anime community, I sincerely urge that you reconsider your company’s business practices.
One more episode downloaded does not equate to one less Odex DVD sold. You cannot force the consumers to like your products.
Thank you for your time,
DarkMirage
Or to summarize: Odex needs a PR department. A new one if it already has one, but I bet it doesn’t.
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Actually if IPOS is really going to go along with this, the easiest thing for them to do is to take down the name of everyone who walks into one of the anime goods import shops and then subpoena his/her ISP. You can probably get a >95% conviction rate.
It’s not a huge stretch to say that piracy created the entire anime community in Singapore, generating a ton of previously untapped export revenues for Japanese companies in the forms of figurines, goods and those R2 Haruhi DVDs that will be arriving at my doorsteps in about two weeks.
Please don’t kill anime.
P.S. Kyoushirou to Towa no Sora episode one ROCKED!!!… No officer, I didn’t download it. I just…uh…took a flight to Japan to catch it on TV last week.
Dun listen to us
BOYCOTT them!
We stand united against you Odex
thanks for pissing the f off your potential “customers”
Quote ‘Heck, I vote that we pay the fansubbers over Odex.’
Hell Yeah
~~~
Before starting off, I like to make a short introduction about myself. In many aspects, I am very similar to the closet Hikkikomori that exists within Japanese Society in general.
As such, I dislike having contact with the rest of my fellow humans. In fact, if I had the chance, I would rather spend the whole day at home alone, by myself, play games, watch anime, laze around, literally a PEST ( Play, Eat, Sleep, Talk ), alone.
That said, I ain’t no saint. As such, the following comments were simply made by someone who does not really fit into any part of Singapore Society.
If there wasn’t so much coverage over the downloading issue, I would never have posted the following comments
~~~
The tactics used by Odex and/or AVPAS might seem to be effective, but in reality might in the end backfire on themselves. Why?
In almost all anime, there is alot of hidden soft themes, which fans get exposed to over and over again, and are eventually heavily influenced. One of these themes, is individuality freedom.
That by itself is not a big deal. But remember Singapore’s Golden Rule? “You can do whatever you want, just DON’T get caught”. The rule is practically indoctrinated into almost every aspect of life. (EVEN more so, if you have ever been into National Service)
Mix the 2 ingredients above, and you get the most explosive keg of Gunpowder. To the neutral, the appropriate term would be “Uninhibited Freedom.(To do as you wish to do)”.
To our government, it would be more like “Totally Unrestrained Freedon” which is without any form of control. I am aware that the government is doing a great job at running the country (Economic prosperity etc ) But it is IN human nature itself, to rebel against those in control.
A fine example is showcased in the recent General elections in Singapore. Despite the fine showings made by the PAP, a very disturbing trends can be noted in the numbers who voted non PAP parties/candidates.
That said, given that most Anime Fans are often influenced by what they liked to watch, the demand of fansubs WILL always be there. Just that the supply, through personal download becomes risky.
So how would they fill this demand through unofficial methods? Simple, through 2 ways.
1. Across the causeway. Anime fans are really a curious lot. Like religion, there is a certain consensus of sharing, and willinginess to help one another, especially in times of need. This also transcends nationality.
Getting downloads from friends from across the causeway, on a weekly basis is still a practical possibility. And you don’t even need to burn it into a disk.
Remember the capacity of your mp3 players and thumb drives? At the rate the capacity is increasing, carrying high quality fansubs in entire series by hidding it within these innoncent looking devices is as easy as 1, 2, 3. AND 2 dogs ain’t going to bother to try to sniff them out.
Unless they are willing to go as far as to check the electronic data stored on such devices on every single ingoing and outcoming person on the CauseWay, I highly doubt you can nip this method of entry.
Of course, this is simply just bringing it in, what about spreading it? Remember how does modern “extremist organisations works”, having a fragmented hierarchy often works, and often one in the chain may not know another within it.(Whether it is closer to creativity or just plain psychotic, I will let you decided upon it.)
This is probably the case in which anime fans would collect themselves into groups to maximise effiency and sharing. In fact, all they need is a USB thumbdrive or a large capacity mp3 player, and they can easily transfer data amongst one discreeting without having to rely on the “intrusive eye”.
Also, for those who are loners, do not despair. Whenever there is demand, there will eventually supply. Both Odex and AVPAS have only factored in the tail end users.
They totally forget about the the Video Game Pirates. That still exists. To this particular group, it is good business waiting in the wings. They are already smuggling data as mentioned above into Singapore, then creating copies of it within Singapore itself, then reselling it.
By cracking down on the end users, those who do not have the means or will to curb their desires, looking to these pirates might be an effective remedy in their perspective.
And given the quality of fansubs, the pirates could even put down a “Quality Assurance” Seal on their products, over the products that Odex makes. (5~10 dollars for a piece of high quality pirated DVD Sub, over a poorly done original product, which would you choose?)
~~~~~~~
Off track topic for a moment, anyone actually noticed the death of a certain pirate industry? Especially those of old game platforms like GameBoy, GameBoyAdvanced, MAME, etc
Those are for a great reason, you can literally download the products off the internet, and play them emulated, for free. Any game for such consoles are too easily available.
In fact it was too easily available, such that the pirate industry for the segment is ALL but nearly gone. ( Which tech savy idiot would pay 30 dollars for what you can get for free off the net, at the touch of a button, in an instant?)
AVPAS/Odex should be able to draw meaningful insight of this.
~~~~~~~
That said, AVPAS/Odex by using the might of the legal system, will no doubt scare the typical downloader. But for the hard core, it is more like necessity rather then a luxury.
For this group to survive, banding together to get this ‘fix’ would make more economic sense. And given the 1st point they made, evidently, rather then try to challenge the system on their main grounds, they would rather quietly just boycott it and get their ‘fix’ elsewhere.
And if the pirates had their say, they would probably put an ad within the Chinese and english dailies, thanking them for the extra (lucrative) ‘product’ line, as well as the new customer base.
So, what dies that leave Odex/AVPAS with? Only resentment, hatred and utter disdain. That hill to climb WILL be alot harder then willingness to work with the community hand in hand.
Finally, to end this off, I only have this to say.
I am not going to go on the ethics of right and wrong, but rather what extent would Singaporean anime fans would go for their fix of anime.
Sometimes, creativity breeds new methodologies and ways to slip under the system, and when there is demand, you can be sure some Singaporeans will definitedly try to take the “cheap route”.
Oh yes, finally, I forget to mention earlier, I am not really into anime ( I cannot remember names of series, their singers, voice actors even), but rather I can sense the $$$ opportunity within doing it.
I am just voicing this from the pragmatic point of view.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi,
Well said…Seriously…I didn’t even know there is a company called ODEX….have NEVER heard of hem before….
I bought the damn Odex vcd of G gundam, and guess what? The subtitles were inconsistent.
I can’t believe that this shit ass company dares to use the authority to their favor to ban fansubs!
I mean come on! These fansubbers ‘hao xin’ good heart, sub it so nicely with good quality for free and give people.
You chicken sub anyhow, then still sell so expensive!
Down with Odex, if they continue to catch ppl for downloading fansubs,
I suggest we all boycott this Odex and don’t purchase their products.
We will, well we will ‘fly’ to Japan and watch the anime episodes and ‘fly’ back.
Hmmmm hang on for 2 more years!
http://www.varietyasiaonline.com/content/view/1436/53/
Not only odex subtitles are inconsistant, they “THINK” they sell their anime very cheap, since anime like Naruto,Bleach,Onpiece and more have 100+ episodes or even 300(onepiece)
If they where to sell anime 13episode for 29.90(round up$30)
300/13×30= $692.3 by the way do you just watch one title of anime? or more than 5?
I have a friend who watches new episode of animes everyday(diffrent titles)DOES ODEX provides get new episodes this quick?
he dls that much, and now what if he was paying from the begining?
if we were to pay, some ppl would steal money from parents or friends or whatevea methods to get money JUST TO BUY anime.
You go behind bars because you downloaded anime is that a joke?
or even better still going behind bars because you stole money to buy anime?
U rock totally! I agree with you whole-heartedly. It was a tragedy when the papers were out last Friday on Home pg 2. I really hope your suggestions are taking into consideration because this ODEX is making my life MISERABLE!
I just got this news from a friend today because I only came back from Australia recently.
This new law, it will totally kill the anime community in Singapore. In Singapore, it is almost impossible to get the newest anime unless you are a cable tv subscriber. But are those really all the latest?
I would gladly buy anime DVDs, only if they weren’t so pricey. I used to buy them, but the quality totally sucked and in another anime, the ending credits were cut off, probably to “save space on the VCD”.
What I think is that ODEX is merely concerned about “profits”. An anime is licensed when it is sufficiently popular, and who makes them popular? The fansubbers. This is just such a cool way to destroy the anime scene in Singapore.
However I think no matter how much we protest, there is no way this can be overturned. ODEX has used the law to its very own benefit. Good job ODEX! Good job for letting us say goodbye to our anime! (and you must be making a lot in the out-of-court settlements)
AVPAS is headed by that Toh guy, ex-MP blah blah blah.
Translation: Incompetent. Nincompoop. Yes-man. Knows fxxk all about anime or anime industry.
Harsh words. But I say it like it is.
you know, it is really true, that in the US, Anime Consumers really feel a community to the producers. Funimation, Bandai, ADV, etc etc, they make a community, whether on purpose, or just a side effect of actually caring. Caring will make profits appear. If a company releases sub-standard products, and products NOBODY wants, then there will be no profit. I watch fan-sub, but also get the DVD’s mostly watch the dvd’s subbed, but is always fun to see the alterations in dub; That is half the point of getting the dvd’s, not to mention the possible special features.
I don’t have a special need to get the actual released DVDs of a fan sub, but I do, especially if I liked the series. Some fan subs will not be released in the US, I know, an accept that, but when they do, it can make the heart happy.
When you do not actually care about a product, nor about your consumers, it shows, especially in sales.
so how much do those guys pay for one ep of anime listed in the odex letter?
Oh by the way odex web is still down . . .
They r goin ard tracking records as fark as1-2year back..
they already have the list of IP . . matter of time they will just mass issue all the fines and gain major profit w/o doin much sale nor having see us as anime lover . . we are just like sitting duck and thier money making machine
If i dl anime not found in http://avpas.com.sg/AVPAS_Authorized.html
how?
is it trackable? DD from realitylapse.com
can watching streamed animes be used as evidence to charge too? (such as crunchyroll or youtube?)
Hypothetically speaking, as u read the letter from http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/stuff/letter.pdf, they track things from feb 2007. and people such as i are oblivious of such thing as i piah in sch and go home didnt read/watch news but rather anime lol…
“if 30% of the population of SG, are issued with this letter and end up in jail, what happens to the economy of sg?” (hypothetically speaking) lol
anyway Thank DM for his earnest explanation as well as interest to safeguard or inform/warn the anime fans by being updated with news. And certainly DM has passed cognitive thinking (a module in RP) regarding sources online be it fact or perception (the liability of source)
ty…
Common!!! Give us a break!!! ODEX YOUR PRODUCT SUCK AND NO UPDATES TO YOUR WEBSITE… U CAN AT LESS MAKE A NEWSLETTER ABOUT YOUR NEW RELEAST!!!
NO ANIME, NO LIVE
LONG LIVE FANSUBS ANIME!!!
if odex is going to keep this up.. even if i don’t download any anime again.. i will not support their product.. so that they will not think by stopping people from downloading their sale will increase..
i’m one of those who got one of the odex letters, and ya.. i think they do get a lot of money in the out-of-court settlements. they mentioned that the episodes of anime that i have downloaded does not have any copyright licenses in sg, but then as they are representing the jap companies, and that the license still belonged to the jap company and hence i am still charged. as to how much to pay …. well… i have on my list 12 lines of records, and he quoted like between 3-4k…. and … i still have to wait for 3-5 days for a response from the jap company…. and to top it all…. anyone knows what it timeshare?
ODEX sucks >_
I strongly agree with things u said over your letter.
Thats exactly how all anime lovers in singapore felt.
I don’t even know what ODEX is until this couple of weeks.
The way they are doing, is purely damaging their company’s image.
those bastards are making money by coercing people into out of court settlement. i say we fans open a company to distrbute the anime. any fans who’re lawyers here? please educate us on the legal implications
I agree with David!
If their products are inferior with so many problems, can we consult CASE on this and clamp them down too?
Nets on the net also said that O*** also used fansubs for their release (G****** S***), does it also implies they have violate the copyrights of others?? they don’t own the translation and they can’t use it right??
If just have the distribution rights but not releasing them to the community allows one to sue, then they might as well get all distribution rights for all damn things and sue everyone!
If ppl are d/ling O*** subbed releases, then they have a pt to sue but ppl are not using theirs so …???
I thought BlueMax also licenses anime? They’re the distributor for Naruto here.
BlueMax’s releases are much better than O***, from the packaging to the quality to its time-to-market..
It does shows that they do care about the community. Thought, some of their price are abit high but collectors are willing to spend if they are not going to end up being coasters for beer!
It’s too bad that BlueMax can’t get as many titles like O***!
Have you guys seen the “NEW” price for O*** products?
3 for 29.90, Are they desperate to clear their stock-.-?
I went to popular, comic connection they were the same,
what happen to O***? meet a dead end? if they did, HHUUURAY!
YAY!!1 If that’s the direction Odex is heading… I’m totally applauding for it! 3 for 29.90, i still see many piling up in those stores and not even clearing at all…
Their quality sucks, the offers are for those super outdated few years ago anime. Who needs it?
To Odex, please dun clamp down on fellow anime fans just because the dl anime instead of buying from you, your quality really sucks and some subbings really went off the cliff… Do something about it and not take it for granted you can control t he whole Singapore anime community by being the SOLE LICENSED COMPANY FOR ANIMES. By the way, your anime release are either not so nice or out too late… Crossing the causway can even find and buy beta quality and CHEAPER anime than there…
Give it a rest ODEX. You are not gaining any recognition from the local anime fans only PURE DISGUST AND RESENTMENT.
Buy lots of them, bring them to CASE and sue them for full refunds and compensations etc… :)
It’s high time with familiarize ourself on consumers’ rights like in the states.
PLS READ TODAY’s Straits Times,
STARHUB MUST GIV NAMES OF ILLEGAL ANIME DOWNLOADERS! Pg3.
yup read the newspaper. Im sure they will survive off the out of court settlement money but then again lets just see how long they can last. I for one have already boycotted their products. Im looking forward to their collapse eventually. Give or take mabbe about 2-3 years if the anime community really 100% boycott them.
I take the pleasure of walking into all the shops selling anime. Makes me think that most of us anime fans have more DVDs in our homes then compared to the DVDs that they sell. Well i have the time to bide. I wunt lose anything by not dlding and not buying from them. They however will not be able to hold on indefinitely without sales and purchases from us. They have the law to back them up but the law does not compel us to buy from them. So if they want to go down that road, we as consumers can play it our with them. We see how long they can last.
Juz a moment of morbid pleasure here, if u think about it, 3 boxsets for 29.90 would kinda come up to pirated prices. Guess what? They are already getting what they deserve. It would be awesome to see them sell if off at the $2 shop one day. When the day comes, that will be the defining moment for all of us anime fans.
Till the day comes, hang tight you guys! Ganbatte!
Nah, down the road they’ll have to pay US to ‘buy’ their Anime.
Their subbing are all shitty outsourced jobs. To add to the Headache, our local board of film censors are run by idiots, so half the time our legal R1/R2s get raped.
It isn’t just SUEdex that’s f***ed up people!
What can we do to stop these blood-sucking vampires??? Boy-cotting them will not work because we will still be made to pay them and sustain their blood-sucking work. It’s like we are killing our own commuinity!!!
Is there any loophole that we can exploit to fight the case?? Just think about it…. if each of us is going to fork out $3-$5k, why don’t we band together with the money that we are going to fork out anyway and fight them to their deaths??? We should exhibit some Naruto / Bleach fighting spirit here. ….DON’T GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT.
To Paranoid:
Like I said, do we have any ground to sue them for inferior products? IF they used fansubbed for their discs, are they liable for ‘piracy’ too??
J, if you realise, some fansubs are actually much more better than odex’s products. the quality is better and their language skills are much more better too. i would be happy if they use fansubs…
I think our case will be weak if we counter them with inferior quality.. its almost like a paedophile saying that Brothel A has poor quality kids and so we go to Brothel B. But it still doesn’t erase the fact that we F*** kids in the first place which is dead wrong. (Pardon me is this is super crude). So we cannot say that Odex FORCE us to commit crime.
I am thinking about some other loophole, .. like the way they gather evidence and etc…
I just read on Wiki that it take a someone in the file-sharing loop to catch us. Meaning they were guilty of the crime in the first place? And there doesn’t seem to be a fool-proof way to claim 100% without benefit of a doubt that we downloaded the entire file. I am sure we came across instances where there were no seeds and our DLs stopped at 99%.
In Singapore, if we cannot prove beyond doubt that we did it, then we cannot be charged as guilty.
Remember the changi traffic accident case, 2 idiots hit a motorcyclist one after the other. Because the court cannot prove which car caused the motorcyclist to die, both were freed!!!! And these 2 idiots didn’t even stop to help the motorcyclist!!!
TO YJ, I know that if they used fansub it’s better BUT the fact that they said that fansub is killing them and is out to make them illegal is too much..
It’s like slapping the same hand that feed you.
I understand that we need only ONE strong case against them and that will be the end of them.. Just like RIAA lost one important case and had to drop the rest till they can find a solid cause as mentioned in Wiki…
Do O*** guys also go and amend Wiki??
can we now think about what are we gonna do when we receive the odex letter?
Odex claim that they merely represent japanese anime companies to sorta like “sue” or “fine” us for DL-ing or BT-ing fansubbed animes. And speculation is that they gain profit which is why they became stricter with the trackings of the BT logs as well as gaining ISP customers info’s rights in order to detect people who watch anime.
The thing is, if odex gain profit to “fine” us all, then what is the implications of issuing letters to anime fans who DL/BT animes? would it be for money sake?
if that is the case, i can conclude that the COPYRIGHT office of the government in SG collaborate with ODEX to fine people for the sake of profits. and by right since the IP doesn’t belong to ODEX, all fines should go to the japanese anime companies who made/produced those animes right?
And on 14th of AUG 2007 straits times pg3, shows that odex is already started tracking speedily.
and the law has just recently been implemented without public notices and in the letter (dm’s link) shows that they tracked to 2 years ago. and you get into trouble because of the things which isn’t an offense 2 years ago.
It is like 2 years ago there is no law about murdering, then i happened to murder. then at present, i did not murder but was charge for murdering because the law newly states that murdering is a crime. “they played with timeline”
and lastly, of course this is singapore… “i would be blogging about the Singapore pledge soon” as not many people actually put the national pledge into practice.
I guess it’s about who has the balls to engage in a fight with them? Most people who got the letter I found in the forums said they’ll just pay the money. And it’s not even a fine. It’s out of court settlement for damages incurred to them. So it’s a civil suit.
It does not involve the police…so its not a criminal case.
But there IS ACTION undergoing now. Someone has started an MSN group to discuss on our rights and what we CAN DO when we we do get the letter. They are organising a meeting to educate us if we bother or are courageous enough to take up the fight.
To Paraniod:
About this MSN group, what if O*** infiltrated it or worst master-mind it?
The answer to fight the case depends on if we can get a IT-savvy lawyer that can represent the community rights and take on them..
http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=weneedbetterdeaththreatsx5.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=itsnotillegaldesudh9.jpg
just a question, will downloading from irc be safer then? safer from o*** i mean
hey guys, please read today’s straits times review section, according to it, their case against us are not that strong. i personally haven’t read it, but according to my friend, in order to sue us, they have to “prove alot of things, such as we are profiting fromt he dl, cannot get the anime elsewhere by cheaper means, not impacting future sales..” (quoted from my friend)
anyway, i’ve studied very very basic law, (but not copyright laws, so things might work different there) there are two ways to sue someone, civil means and criminal means. the former, the sue-er must be a person or someone, the latter, the sue-er is the Singapore govt.
and to sue for civil means, the compensation can be injunction (e.g. force you not to download anymore again) or damages (which basically means money) to prove for damages, they must prove that the amount they lost due to our downloading can be reliably estimated, and that our actions directly cause their lose (Hadley v Baxendale) but then again, as i’ve said, that’s contract law, copyright laws might be different.
if they can’t sue by civil means, then it could be possible that they will hand the evidence to the police then the Singapore govt will sue us under criminal law, the fines WILL NOT go into their pocket.
please note that the last 3 paragraphs do not constitute professional opinions, so don’t quote me on that.. thanks =)
i think i’m going to seek some free legal advices on it… haiz…
seriously, don’t you feel that Odex is such a jerk? we have NO other means of getting the latest episodes, and we’re mostly stressed teenagers.. aren’t they sending the message that watching and keeping porn is more illegal then downloading and watching anime? what’s Singapore becoming to… when downloading porn is less dangerous than downloading anime. haiz. i’m feeling so distressed. i don’t watch porn, i don’t club. now i can’t watch anime.. how?!
then again, does anybody know if we can sue them for psychological disorder?
or maybe.. just maybe.. they’re suing us and laughing cuz they have the muscles and they’re organised. let’s just boycott starhub and singtel, all their power broadband plans, we ALL downgrade to the cheap cheap plans.. then starhub and singtel, upon feeling the pinch
imagine 100 000 people downgrading their broad band plans, from say.. 80 bucks a month to those 20 30 dollars a month type, they’d lose 5 to 6 MILLIONS a month! haha. they’d lose 50 – 60 million a year. they just needa use a fractional of that amount, they can find some stupid reason to sue Odex out of business.
who’s in?
http://www.geocities.com/pulse_cch/anime.html
Kudos to Andy Ho!!!!
Hi All,
I’m not an anime fan, but I’m appalled by how these scum-sucking bastards Odex have decided to make a quick buck and just risk alienating all of you. Dark Mirage, I applaud your nicely crafted letter, try sending it to ST or the New Paper.
What really worries me is how they managed to get Starhub/Singtel/PacNet to reveal customer IP information to them…
I read the New Paper article on how they did this (http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,138165,00.html) and it says they first employed a US company to track and record the downloaders then they used this data to force a court to give them access to our ISP’s IP addresses & log files which they had to match back to IP address to get the culprits.
I’ve done a lot of research on this and how to protect myself as I download content online as well. I use BitTorrent and I’ve got Peer Guardian 2 (which blocks you tapping into an IP seeder who is likely to be one of these US companies that Odex could’ve hired) and also IP Anonymizer (www.anonymizer.com – you have to pay for it, but its well worth it) this basically lets you go through a proxy server and masks your real IP – so therefore those people recording your IP address (at the US end) will record your fake IP.
Protect yourselves, fuck these scum-suckers like Odex – and don’t fight them in court – they’d probably win…. They probably employed some high powered lawyers who don’t mind spending the time as they get paid a percentage of the settlement
yobigc: did you ever tested your (“how to protect myself”) and prove that it works… if i remember i read from azureuswiki that hiding your ip when downloading with bittorrent is still currently impossible.
I did go to a website to do a IP lookup (can’t remember the URL) and it did show my fake IP address. I’m not sure if it really works… but nothing’s happened yet – TOUCH WOOD
I will double-check again tonight
=.= u cant really check like that… my IP is also hidden when surffing the internet. u must check with your mate/friends who dling the same thing as yours… PLUS u know your original IP address… and tele it with your mate/friends thats is how u check….
To J:
That is why I am paranoid.
If we do something, like join this group, we might be serving ourselves up on a platter for fear of espionage, but if we don’t do anything, we’ll be sending on money to these blood-suckers who will in turn use our hard-earned money to go against our own people.
BTW: Naruto is out. Should I or shouldn’t I?? I know that Naruto is not in the list… but who knows in the future???
i am really scared i thio the letter from odex, though i dun d/l much only around 8 episodes plus…
Any way to get around this?
MANNNN…… I AM SCARED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Zzzzz
so is it ok to DL anime right now?
I’m a relatively new guy to the community.
I recently wrote to Straits Times on the ‘Death Threats’ (See: http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Online%2BStory/STIStory_149259.html) However, only after reading the comments (to my letter and here to DM’s letter) than I realised that the rabbit hole goes even deeper! It seems for now that Mr Sing is clearly not the ‘otaku’ he claims to be. Smells like a witch hunt right now.
Could it be because of the FTA with the @meric@n government?
erm atm cant use torrent to download anime , but if direct download will i still get caught too?
I’m reposting what I previously commented in I.Z.Reloaded:-
Just so everyone knows, the IP address doesn’t identify the person or machine. This is not like owning a handphone where the hp number is unique to the subscriber. The IP actually identifies the network device, in most cases, the router or modem. It is a general number given to the router and everyone connected to that router will ALL have the same IP address. This is similar to that of an intranet, where all computers behind the router resembles ‘one very busy computer’. This is called Network Address Translation (NAT), if anyone’s interested.
To go even further, you can even say that it’s not possible for Odex to prove that you even downloaded the file to begin with (though you might have to prove how that file got onto your computer in the first place…:P). The reason is because the internet is a network of networks. When you d/l something, an IP transaction initiates from the sender to the receiver. However, the data comes in packets. Since the internet is a network of networks, those packets don’t arrive through a fixed path. Every individual packet might have come through a different route to your computer, and once the transaction completes, there is nothing that stores the information of the sender (even if it does, remember that the IP address doesn’t uniquely identifies a person/machine). Hence it is completely untraceable.
With this in mind, it is then hard for Odex to prove that you are the one who d/l anime illegally. The best they can prove is the suspected file somehow appeared through your router, but they have no idea who did it and so cannot sue anyone in particular.