This post was delayed because I was at three separate Chinese New Year-related social functions over the 24-hour span of period between 8am Saturday and 8am Sunday. I only reached home this morning. But fret not, for this sudden spontaneous generation of what is common known as a “life” is an extremely rare occurrence that will probably not happen again for quite some time.
Anyway this episode was pretty good except for the fact that my brain was functioning like a half-dead zombie’s as I watched it. Or perhaps that was the reason. Either way, it’s a nice evasion from what had seemed like an inevitable descend into Destiny-ville.
Summary
The Trinity trio begins its campaign of merciless annihilation as it wipes out one military base after another without provocation. The Ptolemaios crew, along with almost everyone else, is confused as to whether these violent interventions are supposed to be part of the original plan.
Tax payers’ money
Apparently the creator(s), Aeolia Schenberg or whoever he turns out to be, of this gigantic secret organization didn’t think it through very well when he/they divided the organization into so many secret cells operating independently of one another, without providing any means for them to confirm each others’ identities.
Why must technical briefings always be done in the dark?
Ian, Celestial Being’s chief technician, discovers that the solar furnaces used by the Thrones are actually knock-offs. They lack some kind of implementation which results in them having limited operating time, unlike Exia and the rest which can operate indefinitely. This is pretty damning evidence that the Trinity siblings are evil and their Gundams are probably based on technology stolen from Celestial Being by a spy within the organization.
“Farewell Howard. We barely knew you. For real.”
With the lost of Howard Mason, a previously insignificant character, Senior Captain Graham has gained a renewed determination to beat the Gundams with his Flag and avenge his fallen comrade. Howard should be glad that he is achieving far greater good in his death.
These meetings always take place in bars
Kinue meets up with the Union soldier who claims to have seen a Gundam up close during the Taklamakan exercise. Apparently he was hidding behind some rocks when Nena exited her cockpit in enemy territory so as to give evil Haro instructions at a volume loud enough for everyone in a 100-metre radius around her to eavesdrop.
It’s good practice to stretch regularly if your job involves sitting in front of a monitor all day
The convenient plot hole aside, we learn from this conversation, and a later one, that the Trinity siblings report to an entity called “Ragna”, which sounds like a pirated copy of Veda. (Without Windows Genuine Advantageâ„¢) But it could really just be some grumpy old man with a mustache. There’s not enough information to make the call either way.
Weddings are…
On the way to one of their AEU targets, the trio passes through Spanish airspace and happens to fly over a wedding ceremony attended by the Halevy extended family, which includes Louise. Nena, being a psychotic bitch, is unhappy that some people get to have fun while she has to work her tight ass off (massacring people), so she decides to have some fun (massacring people) and fire on the ceremony. Twice.
…dangerous
This wipes out the whole Halevy lineage, except for Louise. Just think of all that inheritance…
My preciousssss
Okay, so I shouldn’t be mean. Louise is completely traumatized by the incident and she also lost her left hand, leaving her unable to accept the ring which Saji spent weeks saving up for.
Guro
Emo emo emo. I am somewhat reminded of Code Geass, in a good way.
Aim for the cockpit dammit!
Finally, Johann Trinity launches an attack against the Iris Corporation’s weapon factory, which is manned by civilians, and gets pwned by Graham in a one-on-one fight over Iowa airspace. Graham is smart because he steals Johann’s GN beam saber and uses it against the Gundam Throne. But he only manages to cut off an arm.
“Exia, exterminating targets.”
And uh, Setsuna decides to take on the Thrones. I’m guessing he’s going to get pwned, so that Exia can get upgraded into Ultra Hyper Exia Excellion Infinity, maybe?
Comments
All in all, it’s an enjoyable episode with nice pacing. It is heavily plot-based, which is a good thing because G00 is really weak when it comes to character substance.
Anyway, Louise lost part of her arm. Gundam Throne lost one of its arms. Am I the only one who thinks that something may come out of this coincidence? (Gundam Louise!)
Okay, that’s probably going too far. (I hope.) But seriously, I can just imagine Louise being abducted by some top secret joint Union-AEU-HRL black project to manufacture cyborg pilots for whatever super weapon they plan to build to counter the Gundams. Maybe some really, really huge mobile armour that shoots missiles from its fingertips and add some giant lasers for good measure. And name it something that invokes a sense of doom and destruction, like “Break”, “Kill”, “Annihilate”, or even “Destroy”. Yeah.
Also, it seems that the parent organization of Celestial Being is being set up by the story for a split-up into two factions, and the worst part: Wang Liu Mei sounds like she’s tempted to join the dark side! Oh no! :O
Screencaps
“Noooooooooo…”
My, what a huge head you have
Colin Powell’s descendant?
Tieria gets cock-blocked by Veda
“Maybe those mass murderers aren’t so bad after all…”
“Why did I volunteer to pilot the cannon fodder unit?”
The purple orb at the front looks like evil Haro
RIP
WTF? Wait… Wait… WTF!?
Graham lost a few internal organs from the acceleration
This is not the “Vader” you are looking for. *Waves hands*
Isn’t that bulge on the bed a little too big?
EMO
omg no guro pls kthxbye
“That ring was frigging expensive.”
I like to play Mahjong.
I support the fact that Saji will NOT be involved in the war. It will take a couple of years to train him to be a useful mobile suit pilot. As some of you people said (or implied) his too immature to be a pilot, yet.
And there’s a difference between a Coordinator and a real human. (In this case, Shinn and Saji.)
Again, Blake, in case my information on Gundam 00 as of yet is marred by my not seeing the latest 2 episodes, please forgive me. But up to now 2 things are not certain of: where is the last solar furnace, and are the Gundam Throne units really belong to CB.
And Howard is just like Heine Westenfluss from GSD: just comes and goes.
“DarkMirage
February 11th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Saji (real name is saji lol):
Wow cool. You can access my blog from 300 years in the future!”
Haha, unfortunately, I’m not from the future :(. The name is Sajith, and when I was little in Japan (kyoto) they called me Saji-kun in school. And so, when I started watching Gundam 00 and saw a kid named “saji” pop up on the subtitles I almost fell off my chair. haha
-end lame story-
@drastikhate
More like make sure you get head from Nena.
I highly doubt Saji is going to pilot a mobile suit, all the CB pilots SO far seem to have some sort of experience with war I could be wrong and have completely missed something but whatever. I doubt an engineering student can just pilot a gundam. But id see it happening with a time skip.
But if it time skips i am TOTALLY dropping this show.
A time skip of the appropriate length is pretty much imposible now. Before the throines it was viable. CB was maving things at a much slower pace. The Thrones have drastcially increased the pace from that though and now things are just moving to fast for any kind of pluasible time skip.
DM, I know you’re busy, but can I request Nena and Haro’s spoken lines in the eavesdropping scene where she first cites Ragna (somewhere in the ballpark of 8:30-8:40 I’d guess)? It’d be much appreciated, and it’s only two lines long, if that makes it any better.
i like the way you put it but since the thrones gens or knock offs then exia is going to outlast then and pwned them into the ground…..and that girl has issues kill her whole family because she has to kill other people i think she needs a pimp slap
Louise gets abducted? Are you out of your mind?
She is DIS-ABLED for crying out loud.
My reasonable guess is Saji is going to find Setsuna for help.
In fact, Saji might upgrade Exia with GN Arms. Remember, Saji is an ENGINEER student.
(Spoiler weapon)http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2607/79972048kp9.jpg
Saji’s Dad must have something to do with CB. In fact, his dad might even be MURDERED by CB for finding out its true intention.
Exia, Virtue, Kyrios, Virtue…they are destined to fight the 3 thrones…I heard it is all over Gundam Ace monthly already.
Good guess on the Louise there, hope she gets gang-green.
Guess this show finally released it has a plot, about time too; comical plot holes and one dimensional characters can’t keep em going for two seasons.
lolzzzz. I gotta be honest, I absolutely love reading your blogs, DarkMirage. Freakin hilarious. I think I look forward to what you have to say about the new gundam episodes more than watching the episodes themselves. It’s kinda confusing how Graham accelerating his flag somehow shredded some internal organs. Geez, people can go 3x the speed of light with no scratches, how could a guy in a flag get hurt like that? Unless that thing goes faster than 3x the speed of light, in which case I’d still be confused…Oh yea, ever see how the Meisters don’t have seatbelts? While they go flying forward, and smash their heads into monitors, the flag pilots are nice and safe :3
I think GN Particles on the Gundam helped to reduce the G-effect on the Gundam Meisters, while Flag didnt have it, hence Graham have to suffer from the G-effect. Compare when you ride a bike with driving a car. At the same speed, people who ride a bike will receive higher resistance compared to people who drive a car.
Just OT: In Gundam Wing, the boys are trained to withstand the high G’s from piloting Gundams, meaning ordinary pilot who didnt receive the training will find it very difficult to pilot a Gundam (even Zechs suffer from the G-effect at the early time he pilot he Tallgeese;he piloted the slower Leo before). Different case with Gundam00 though, where GN Particles help reduce the G-effect n the pilot
@Exiled_G: “The effects of GN Particles on physical ergonomics.” Tell me when we’ve got that figured out. =D
According to the Wiki (and I hope that it was written by someone with the proper authority), it’s the superior engineering of the Gundams themselves that reduce the excessive shock to the pilots.
I think Louise will mature in this series so does Saji.. looking forward for their relationship, I like Gundam series because they let characters grow with the story, well the story is getting better anyway, i want more setsuna lol
Can we get one anime where the female teenage pilot isn’t a homicidal psycho with a bubbly personality? I don’t think you have 3 dimensions of personality if you add up all the Trinity’s together.
Your post was spot on, as usual.
Oh my God. I think I’m developing a crush on Nena. There’s a certain dangerous thrill to that bubbly murdering slut.
graham sure did a job well done for a flag pilot.
too bad he cant handle the g’s though.
anyway, ill also be looking forward for him to pwn a throne unit.
@RmX
Well, the GN Particles did provide flight capabilities to the Gundam (like some sort of anti-gravity property), so it can be used to counter the G-effect on the Meister
why doesnt louise just put that frigging ring on her other hand? i hope setsuna beats a least one if the thrones!!! i love ur lil comments for the pictures on each blog there so bloody funny!! nice job darkmirage
@GBABH
it’s because she can’t use her other hand to put it on her right hand. I think that’s what she meant.
Or more like wedding rings are supposed to be worn on the left hand, at least going by Western and Japanese customs.
well for the record, every gundam pilot has some type of weird traumatizing experience, and it seems that saji has just faced his, but what will he do???
I honestly think that setsuna will get his behind beaten and get kicked off as a pilot, but when he sees what happened to louise he’ll try to get back exia and kill them again. maybe.. idk..either that or saji will be chosen to pilot exia.
Jason if you honestly think that CB would choose Saji as a pilot to replace Setsuna then no offense but you are a complete moron. Setsuna could be kicked off CB but he would never leave without the Exia. That suit is his whole life. Remember the episode when Virtue’s pilot put a gun to his head for opening his cockpit? That whole scene where Setsuna threatened that guy/girl about taking him away from Exia? He could be kicked outta CB but he’ll take Exia with him.
Also, Saji unlike Setsuna does not have any training to pilot a suit at all, nor, like i said before, does he have the personality to be a soldir of any sort for anyone. With this traumitizing experience he could get the attitude and motivation. I doubt it but the matter of training and experiece is still an issue. The amount of time it would take to train him is jsut to time the way things are moving now.
that’s not true! E pilot of gundam sandrock in wing didnt have any
Post number 57, its pretty much inevitable that Exia will get an upgrade, and the fact that Saji will be involved.
to exiled_g: GN Particles dont create an anti-gravity effect, its just a particle thruster, like ion thruster or MPD thruster
It may not creat an anti gravity effect, but its not impoosible that it could create a buffereing affect. We don’t know enough to say one way or the other. All we know is that they are used for thrust, as well as for weaponry and powering the suit. Thats a main point in the series. However, becuase it hasn’t really mattered as far as the plot is concerned, we don’t know what other possible uses the particles have.
Post 59
No, people do not go 3x the speed of light in either gundam 00 or real life. Nothing except light can go the speed of light (in a vacuum) and nothing at all can go faster than it. If someone managed to go 3x the speed of light they wouldn’t just get scratches, they’d break the whole universe.
Oh joy, fun topic ahead!
Why, specifically, can nothing to faster than the speed of light? In space you can accelerate infinitely as long as your fuel lasts, which will eventually mean you break lightspeed. Well, once we develop a very efficient kind of fuel anyway.
Huh. No you can’t. Einstein said so.
There’s something called special relativity at work. Time slows down, length contracts and your perceived mass increases as you approach light speed. The amount of energy you need to accelerate increases exponentially as you move close to c (due to your close to infinite mass). It will literally take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate something that has mass to the speed of light. And if you do somehow travel faster than light, time will effectively flow in reverse for you.
Specifically, the Lorentz factor quantifies the degree of time dilation that occurs at different velocities, and it can be seen that traveling at the speed of light will give a divide by zero. While the equations don’t technically prohibit faster-than-light travel, light-speed traveling appears to be impossible, so no one has any idea how to jump pass that barrier.
Humans cannot currently travel at any appreciable fraction of the speed of light and at most experience a few milliseconds of time dilation over long periods. If we can travel at, say, half the speed of light, we will effectively be able to travel forward in time by leaving and returning to Earth on a spaceship.
that is some physics! I CANT WAIT FOR EPISODE 19!
From the perspective of the crew, you, and everyone on the planet earth, are traveling close to the speed of light.
Thats why the idea that lightspeed is the limit fails. Either both sides are right or they are both wrong, in which case we cant use time dilation, or there is some absolute measurement of speed which we have yet to discover.
You only need extre power for increased speed if there is some kind of resistance, say friction from a surrounding atmosphere. In space, there is nothing that performs this function, so every increment in speed requires exactly the same amount of power. If this was not true solar sails would not work.
Also, “Einstein said so” stopped being a cute/funny quip a long time ago.
if they ever manage to make something that will travel the speed of light you wouldnt break the whole universe just when you come back to earth youll be in the future and everyone you know will be dead i forgot where i heard this but the math equation made perfect sense
Honestly I don’s see us breaking reaching the speed of light as things stand. In the physical unerverse no matter what we do the laws of physics still apply I don’t care how good you technology is moving a near infinite mass at to that speed requires near infinite energy which noone can create. Now this only applies in the universe as it is. Faster than light travel is possible, but you have to bend the laws of the universe to do so. I can’t say I completely understand it but if you could cause and control a space-time alteration you could have the desired effect. Basicilly it would amount to you moving faster than light relative to the rest of the universe, but you wouldn’t actually be moving that fast in relative to whats inside the space-time alteration. This would require some extreme technology but its a better idea than trying to move an object to light speed by conventional means. And just in case somone tries to say I’m talkin about wormholes, and no offense to those who would’t but there are those out there who would, I am not talkin about a wormhole. A wormhole is basicilly just a shotcut, a tunnel of sorts. Simple example they put a tunnel in a mountain so we can just drive through it instead around it reducing travelling time. That is all a wormhole really boils down to being, a glorified tunnel.
Guner what he said was reaching light speed is the problem. As you get closer to light speed the mass of an object increases near infinitely. Now I understand what you are saying, in a perfect vacuum the mass would not be a problem. The problem is that a perfect vacuum only exists in labarotory situations, never naturally in space. So there will be resistance making even getting to light speed, letting alone faster, impossible by conventional means in all but the laboratory circumstances.
dman the theory is that time is relative, as you speed up so does time. But only you are speeding up and not the people on earth. Now as I remember it if you travel for so long at the speed of light only that amount of time would have passed for you while a great deal more time passes for those not moving at that speed.
What im saying, shadow, is that the Lorentz factor is probably wrong. Or more accurately, that it doesnt apply in all situations.
If so, moving at the speed of light, and faster, suddenly becomes possible. It would also mean the doors to time travel are closed.
No Guner space is not a perfect vacuum. The definition of a perfect vacuum is that there is no matter what so ever in it. No particles no molecules, nothing. Space does have particles of matter everywhere and these particles would provide reistance to any oving object with mass. The only reason photons are an exception to this is that they have no mass.
A perfect vacuum is a meaningless concept. It describes nothingness, which is an abstract philosophical concept with no meaning. Its something that can not exist. (which is why i edited my above comment, it was pointless)
Space is as close to that definition as we come in our universe, it just happens to be a vacuum that has things in it. A vacuum is only a meaningful concept if it describes lack of atmospheric pressure, which is the definition scientists necessarily have to work with.
Photons, to my understanding, exist on the brink between energy and matter. Supposedly they are both at the same time. Their uniqueness is what makes me doubt the accuracy of the Lorentz factor, since it is based on the fact that light always moves at c in any frame of reference. The Lorentz factor could very well be accurate for light, but that does not necessarily have to mean it applies to anything else.
I understand what you mean now and about the edit it happened after I had posted or while I was doing so, sorry about that. My point is simply this: yes space is the closest thing to a vacuum in natural circumstances. However since there are particles in space everywhere, there is gravity everywhere. However slight the gravity is it will have an effect on everthing moving through it making light speed travel near impossible by conventional means. Not as difficult as it would be here on Earth but still it would be impossible. No matter what photons are they are the only known excpetion to this rule. The last thing that I need to say is that the objects as they get closer to the speed of light do gain mass. This has actually been proven in experiments. As the amount of mass an object has is unaffected by gravity it will gain mass at a constant rate in zero gravity as long as it moves that fast. So thats why I say that its impossible to move normal objects to the speed of light through conventional means. But yes I do understand what you are saying.
Im not sure that the gravity of microscopic particles will have any effect. Even if it does, those tiny particles are both in front, back, and all around the ship so they should cancel eachother out.
And again, speed as measured by what? Speed is relative.
Relative velocity “paradox”
General relativity has long since resolved your so-called relative velocity dilemma. In fact, it’s a standard question asked in introductory courses to special relativity. It has also been experimentally proven that there is mass gain and time dilation for an object travelling at high speeds away from Earth, even if you can arguably say that it is Earth which is moving away from the object.
The reason why it appears to be a paradox is because special relativity doesn’t take into account acceleration, which is covered by general relativity.
And on a unrelated note, there’s a shift back towards the idea of some kind of absolute reference frame, because measurements of Doppler effects in background universal radiation, and comparing values taken from different facings, can allow us to determine our velocity with respect to the universe. But it’s clearly not the same concept as the Newtonian idea of absolute frames, because relativistic transformations still apply.
Mass is energy
It is generally accepted that mass is a state of energy, which is part of what special relativity is about when it says that an object’s mass will approach infinite as it approaches the speed of light. Ever heard of E=mc^2?
And none of that matters anyway, since nothing mentioned so far changes the fact that your whole “if you can accelerate infinitely you will eventually hit light speed” is factually wrong. Graphs can have y-values that are always increasing but yet never ever reach their asymptotes.
Lorentz factor
The Lorentz factor, which you claim may not apply to some fantasy construct which you speculate to exist, is one of the foundations of modern particle physics, and not just about light. Even if you were to discover some new physical entities that do not experience relativistic effects when accelerating, it doesn’t mean anything with respect to your assertion that normal physical matter can hit light speed just by accelerating forever. It can’t.
It’s good to speculate, but speculations are not enough to counter experimentally-proven results in an argument until they themselves are substantiated and tested.
Vacuums? wtf.
This also has nothing to do with vacuums or whatever.
Wrong. The reason why solar sails work is because they do not hit any appreciable fraction of light speed to produce a significant change in the mass of the object.
At speeds close to c, things will gain significant mass, and the faster they go, the more mass they gain. More mass = a bigger force required to accelerate the same amount = exponentially increasing energy requirement. This has NOTHING to do with vacuums, resistance and gravity.
Mathematical model
Think of a standard logarithmic graph. The speed our spaceships travel at are so insignificant that we are only at the very start of the graph and the line appears to be a linear one to us, i.e. constant force = constant acceleration.
However this linearity is only an illusion which we intuitively hold to be true because our instincts were developed to handle a world-view at speeds where Newtonian physics apply.
At the higher values of x, the gradient starts to drop drastically. Eventually the acceleration will be infinitely close to zero no matter how much energy you pump in, and you will never hit the speed of light, which is the asymptote.
Einstein rocks
You have a very flawed understanding of Einsteinian physics, which is why you think that it’s silly to quote him. The fundamental concepts proposed by Albert Einstein a century ago still have not been disproved yet, and in fact have been repeatedly verified by new experiments made possible by technological advancements since.
The entire problem is that neither side can prove anything yet. For that to happen we really will need a very fast spacecraft.
Yah, tests have been done in particle accelerators. But we dont know if that applies to anything bigger than a particle.
And again i ask, why? Without friction in space, there should be no difference between going from zero to 0.1 c, and from 0.9c to c. Especially since speed is not an absolute thing.
Your idea that the speed of light is some sort of magical value just doesnt hold. Its an arbitrarily chosen limit because its the fastest thing we know of, but that in itself doesnt have to mean that it is [i]the[/i] limit.
The only place i have seen this demonstrated is in the ideas of a dead man. He was smart, yes, but he was not infallible.
Its not that i dont understand it, its just that i reject parts of it. A lot of his ideas have yet to be disproven, but some of it has also yet to be proven.
Guner you said: Yah, tests have been done in particle accelerators. But we dont know if that applies to anything bigger than a particle.
Actually it does apply to everything bigger than a particle as everything bigger than a particle is made of smaller particles eventually going down to the smallest. This is a basic scientific FACT that u learn in like the third grade. Everything is of any size is made of smaller particles. SO if the laws of physics apply to the smallest particles does it not make sense that that apply to the things those same particles combine to create? If one particle with mass is affected by the laws of physics than all things with mass are affected by these same laws. You cannot make acceptions. The best way I ever heard it was in my sixth grade math class. What you do to the left you do to the right. What you do to the top you do to the bottom. This may have been learned in math but it applies in most sciences as well or things will not balance out. The fact is Guner, and I don’t mean any offense by this, that the way you view things can only happen in a fantasy universe. In the real universe the laws of physics apply to everything or they wouldn’t be considered laws. As for Einstien pretty much all of his ideas have been proven in his life or after it. And not just once either dozens and dozens of times in different laboratories and different experiments.
DM: I don’t know if you had reffered to any thing I had said in your post. I can’t remeber at the moment and frankly im feeling a bit to lazy to look. However if you did I’m sorry I tried going with things as best I remember, so I amy have gotten some things wrong namely about the friction in space.
Guner:
There’s no room left for argument because you are still using concepts and ideas that are exactly what relativity has displaced.
Velocity doesn’t exist only as relative ratios.
Your assumption that there’s no difference between 0.1c and 0.9c lies firmly in classical mechanics which are fundamentally wrong, and this makes all your subsequent arguments so completely and thoroughly irrelevant that it’s not even funny.
Energy is involved in accelerating an object to 0.9c, and the relative velocity between objects have nothing to do with it. Do you know enthalpy and Gibb’s free energy? The concept is sort of similar to velocity. Although we can only measure the change in enthalpy of a compound and the relative enthalpy difference between two compounds, that does not mean that enthalpy is a meaningless and arbitrary value. Every compound has a definite amount of energy content even if we cannot measure it.
Your whole argument about speed being relative shows that you have no real concept of what relativity actually means.
c is not an arbitrary limit
Your idea that the speed of light is an arbitrary limit shows that you have no idea how time progression works, and why the speed of light must be a constant in all frames of references in order for us to explain countless experimentally-obtained results. Time, space and the speed of light are intrinsically and elegantly linked in a relation that extends to the very foundation of modern physics. The velocity c is a limit placed upon all matter by time itself.
Paradigms
There is very little room left for doubt in the basic ideas of relativity. Perhaps it will be proven “wrong” one day by a even larger overreaching theorem in that sense that it may be incomplete. But for the purpose of the universe and dimensions that we are currently aware of, relativity has been proven and verified to be true, as far as the word “true” can hold meaning.
Einsteinian physics displaced Newtonian physics and did away with the concept of absolute reference frames, but that’s only because it deals with a larger domain. It certainly didn’t enable us to do anything new within the domain of Earth-based mechanics, which Newtonian physics still preside over. (Because it serves as a sufficient estimate in low velocity cases found on Earth.)
Similarly, a grand theory that supersedes relativity is unlikely to enable light-speed travel of matter, at least not in any way that you have described.
Experimental proof
Newsflash: You and I, and everyone else, live in the ideas of this dead man. Please educate yourself.
Real-life implementations
Your assertion that “nothing has been proven yet” effortlessly discounts an entire century of both theoretical and practical applications of relativity. Hey, I guess NASA implements relativistic adjustments in calculations for their satellites and deep-space probes just for the fun of it, right? And those GPS satellites that power your navigators? They adjust for time dilation too. Travelling overseas on a commercial plane? Congratulations, you extended your life span by a few nano seconds.
Einstein > you
I don’t see how anything but pure ignorance can make you conclude that “neither side can prove anything yet”, especially when your so-called “other side” exists only in your mind. So what’s your take on evolution anyway?
You criticize Einstein’s time-proven ideas without an irking of what they really are. You sound like you are disagreeing just to be different.
“Or more like wedding rings are supposed to be worn on the left hand, at least going by Western and Japanese customs.”
buhahah…. omg, it is bug…
in Spain the wedding ring is worn on the left hand…
Time dilation looks exactly to me like my ideas look to you. Unproven fantasy. Thats what makes us unable to properly discuss this. Relativists are using an unproven idea as the basis of their arguments, an idea i reject.
[quote]Your whole argument about speed being relative shows that you have no real concept of what relativity actually means.[/quote]
Then please tell me how you would measure absolute speed in space.
[quote]Your idea that the speed of light is an arbitrary limit shows that you have no idea how time progression works, and why the speed of light must be a constant in all frames of references in order for us to explain countless experimentally-obtained results. Time, space and the speed of light are intrinsically and elegantly linked in a relation that extends to the very foundation of modern physics. The velocity c is a limit placed upon all matter by time itself.[/quote]
I have never seen this actually proven anywhere. I have seen it inferred based on experiments which were interpreted using Einsteins ideas, which themselves have yet to be fully proven. Thats not the same as proof.
[quote]There is very little room left for doubt in the basic ideas of relativity. Perhaps it will be proven “wrong†one day by a even larger overreaching theorem in that sense that it may be incomplete. But for the purpose of the universe and dimensions that we are currently aware of, relativity has been proven and verified to be true, as far as the word “true†can hold meaning.[/quote]
Most of it. I question some of the more obscure parts.
[quote]Einsteinian physics displaced Newtonian physics and did away with the concept of absolute reference frames, but that’s only because it deals with a larger domain. It certainly didn’t enable us to do anything new within the domain of Earth-based mechanics, which Newtonian physics still preside over. (Because it serves as a sufficient estimate in low velocity cases found on Earth.)
Similarly, a grand theory that supersedes relativity is unlikely to enable light-speed travel of matter, at least not in any way that you have described.[/quote]
On the other hand, dissimilarly, if things like time dilation turn out to be wrong, then it might.
[quote]Your assertion that “nothing has been proven yet†effortlessly discounts an entire century of both theoretical and practical applications of relativity. Hey, I guess NASA implements relativistic adjustments in calculations for their satellites and deep-space probes just for the fun of it, right? And those GPS satellites that power your navigators? They adjust for time dilation too. Travelling overseas on a commercial plane? Congratulations, you extended your life span by a few nano seconds.[/quote]
GPS satellites adjust for gravitational effects on atomic clocks. We have no idea how gravity affects any other type of clock, or exactly why atomic clocks behave the way they do at high altitudes.
Also, from your own link: http://www.cartesio-episteme.net/H%26KPaper.htm
[quote]I don’t see how anything but pure ignorance can make you conclude that “neither side can prove anything yetâ€, especially when your so-called “other side†exists only in your mind. So what’s your take on evolution anyway?
You criticize Einstein’s time-proven ideas without an irking of what they really are. You sound like you are disagreeing just to be different.[/quote]
There is no need to be snippy. Yet.
The problem with using the results of atomic clocks is that they are just one type of clock. Just like all other types of clocks, they do not measure time directly. Until we have checked that a clockwork or digital clock in low gravity or swift motion behave the same way they do, saying that “time changes” is at best a hopeful guess. And in my estimation, likely to be wrong.
Incidentally, Einsteins ideas also existed “only in his mind” for quite a long time. That in itself is no grounds for dismissing them.
sorry about my mistake… of course:
in Spain the wedding ring is worn on the right hand…
Guner:
Yes, except that you are no obviously no Einstein if you think that the only thing stopping objects from accelerating to light speed is drag force.
When Einstein went ahead and destroyed an entire paradigm with his ideas, he actually understood 1) the theory he displaced 2) his own theory and 3) the proof behind his theory.
You have thus far shown none of the above. What you are doing is saying that you don’t believe in everything that physicists have been doing in the recent decades based on some vague hunch that time dilation is wrong and that we should be able to accelerate to light speed just by pushing.
The reason why atomic clocks are affected by gravity is explained in general relativity. In fact, you are basically saying that general relativity does happen! Your baseless assertion that we don’t know why gravity affects atomic clocks is patently false, since GPS satellites do employ Einstein’s general relativity to adjust for relativistic effects caused by gravity and won’t work without them.
On one hand we have a formula proven to work in real-life applications, on the other hand we have baseless accusations that it doesn’t work, coming from someone who sounds like he is reading about this whole topic on wikipedia for the first time in his life.
Relativity is proven as far as physics conducted on non-human scales can be proven. Whether you believe in it or not doesn’t change that fact. You speak of “relativists” as if they belong to some kind of belief system, but in reality “relativists” may as well mean “modern physicists”.
[quote]Yes, except that you are no obviously no Einstein if you think that the only thing stopping objects from accelerating to light speed is drag force.[/quote]
Reading too much into things. What im saying is that you would probably have laughed at Einstein too if you had been around back then.
[quote]When Einstein went ahead and destroyed an entire paradigm with his ideas, he actually understood 1) the theory he displaced 2) his own theory and 3) the proof behind his theory.
You have thus far shown none of the above. What you are doing is saying that you don’t believe in everything that physicists have been doing in the recent decades based on some vague hunch that time dilation is wrong and that we should be able to accelerate to light speed just by pushing.[/quote]
You are just going to have to take my word that i understand his ideas. Understanding them is not the same as accepting them.
[quote]The reason why atomic clocks are affected by gravity is explained in general relativity. In fact, you are basically saying that general relativity does happen! Your baseless assertion that we don’t know why gravity affects atomic clocks is patently false, since GPS satellites do employ Einstein’s general relativity to adjust for relativistic effects caused by gravity and won’t work without them.[/quote]
It is possible to reach a correct result with flawed methods.
Neither of us know exactly how much tinkering and formula adjustment it took to get the GPS adjustments right. I submit that it is likely that they needed the results from the jet clock to figure it out, that the formula alone was not enough. Unfortunately i dont know where i would find the info to confirm this.
And we still dont know how gravity might affect other clocks. It necessarily has to match the atomic clocks if this theory is right, but it has yet to be tested.
[quote]On one hand we have a formula proven to work in real-life applications, on the other hand we have baseless accusations that it doesn’t work, coming from someone who sounds like he is reading about this whole topic on wikipedia for the first time in his life.[/quote]
So just for the record, whats your scientific background?
I took a semester long module on relativity. But that doesn’t matter since I am refering to understanding, not qualification.
Your appeal for me to “take your word” for it when you insist that you understand relativity does not inspire confidence. I have more than sufficiently demonstrated my understanding of the topic, why don’t you do the same? Describe the exact processes and assumptions that you seem so certain are wrong. Your argument thus far contains no substance. All you are saying over and over again is that you don’t believe in relativity because you find it unbelievable.
I must say that this is gettin kinda funny. Not the posts themselves but just how this argument is going.
DM: two things. One: your posts on this matter are all very intereseting. Two: Don’t bother arguing with Guner, I doubt he would change his mind if you got the best scientists in the world to come convince him or if you could somehow bring Einstien himself back to life.
@Gunner
you might want to read on Maxwell’s equations, a chapter on spc relativity and partical accelerators.
speed of light is how fast information can travel in space
it’s derived from the fundalmental laws of physics. Now, if you are travelling faster than the information, that means you will make something happens before it happens. Think about that.
the idea behinds relative is that when you are travelling, or when you see someone else is travelling, physics law don’t change. Because c is derived from the laws of physics, it cannot change with speed.
Doesn’t matter if you are going at 0.01c or 0.99c. Physics laws has to be the same.
And, to satisfy rest of the laws, if you do some math, space, time, and mass has to be changed.
It turns out that you cannot accelerate something to the speed of light unless you are playing with the general theory of relative.. say.. a blackhole..
but let’s forget about that, since Exia isn’t ganna fight the thrones anywhere near a blackhole.
@dark Mirage
I feel sorry for you being involved in this long ass argument..
oh btw einstein does rock