UPDATE 20/11/2007: Note to foreign readers. This article is about Odex’s local copyright enforcement actions that took place in Singapore in mid 2007. This is not directly related to its latest international efforts. Please refer to here for discussions on the latest development.
Here is my summary of what I think of Odex’s grand scheme to dominate the local market in one daring move, and why I think they will fail terribly and spoil it for the rest of us. As some of you may or may not know, I met with Peter Go, director of Odex, twice before and had some discussions with him long before the start of the on-going fiasco (after he read my letter). At that time, I promised him that I would not reveal anything that was said during our private conversations, so I shall honour that promise. Not that I have a need to, now that Odex has shown its hand and everything has been made public. Anyway, just hoping to clear up some FUDs that have been making their rounds in every single forum thread on the topic.
Anti-Video Piracy Association of Singapore (AVPAS) is not affliated to the government.
Never was, never will be.
Odex is the sole active member of AVPAS.
Although Odex is inconspicuously in the middle of the member list of AVPAS, it is not too much a stretch to say that AVPAS is essentially Odex and not much more. Basically it’s like how music labels use RIAA to redirect the bad publicity away from their brand names, except that Odex is failing horribly at it because they were too lazy to create a letterhead for AVPAS and decided to use their own instead. Big mistake.
Odex is not, and has never been, the dominant proliferator of anime in Singapore.
They may be the one with all the licensing rights, but exponential growth of anime’s popularity seen locally was not their doing. Odex VCDs and DVDs have never received the level of acceptance and respect given to R1 DVDs by the American anime community. With or without BitTorrent.
Odex employees download fansubs.
According to various personal blogs belonging to related individuals. Or just common sense. I mean, the only reason why those people are working for Odex is because they are anime viewers. Where do almost all Singaporean fans get their anime fix from? Hint: it ain’t packaged in silver. Are their employees being issued similar letters?
Not all the AVPAS titles are licensed for local distribution.
Although Odex is the only active member of AVPAS, it does have the consent of the Japanese studios to act on behalf of them. Odex is empowered, through its own creation AVPAS, to defend the copyrights of these studios, whether or not the works in question are licensed for distribution by Odex. This can be said to be very unfair because many of the items are not legally available in Singapore except through expensive parallel importing and the actual damages done by illegal downloading to Odex’s business is therefore zero for these particular titles. Still, it appears that Odex does indeed have the right to represent the interest of those Japanese studios and thus it is within their abilities to sue for certain titles that they do not hold the distribution rights for.
The Japanese studios are not directly involved.
As far as I can tell, the Japanese studios did not initiate this. They probably do not care about what Odex does since Singapore is an insignificant market to them. From what little information is available, it appears that AVPAS was created initially to target commercial bootlegging, for example in 2004 they won a case against a local retail chain to raid their warehouse. This suggests that the Japanese studios authorized Odex to represent their interests so as to fight what they perceive to be commercial piracy. Whether or not this authorization is now being misused by Odex for their own agendas is highly questionable.
Odex did not send any warnings.
When a local blogger first mentioned in passing that Odex was going to take legal actions, they denied it and refused to comment on it. Then one day the letters started flying out of the blue and immediately started to demand money. This really makes one question Odex’s intention.
As a private entity, Odex cannot file a criminal suit.
Although they mentioned “fines of $10,000 per item and imprisonment of 5 years” in their letter, Odex can do nothing of that sort. They can launch a civil suit against you and if they win they can claim damages incurred. But they cannot force the relevant authorities to press criminal charges against you. That is up to the government to decide.
Neither can Odex prevent any criminal charges.
Even if you pay Odex their $3,000 or so, there is nothing to stop the government from pressing criminal charges against you. Copyright infringement is a criminal offence in Singapore. Odex can do nothing to interfere with that. In fact, even if they promise not to sue you themselves, there is nothing that legally prevents them from reporting you to the relevant authorities. In fact, it would be illegal for them to make such a promise.
Odex claims $3,000-$5,000 settlement is for legal and tracking fees.
With 1,000 subpoenaed IP addresses per ISP for SingNet, Starhub and PacNet, we end up with exactly 3,000 IP addresses being affected. Let’s very generously estimate that PacNet manages to appeal successfully and protect the identity of its subscribers and that 1/3 of the addresses are either duplicates (due to dynamic IP assignment) or otherwise unsuitable for Odex’s purpose (e.g. employees, friends and/or relatives). We are still left with about 1,300 or so targets. Let’s assume that everyone only has to pay, on average, $3,000. That is a total of 3.9 million dollars we are talking about, and that is the low end assumption. It can potentially be twice as much if you change a few variables.
According to this The New Paper article, Odex enlisted the help of a US company in tracking BitTorrent downloads. It doesn’t take 3.9 million dollars to run a bunch of servers to auto-scrape at regular intervals every torrent file posted on AnimeSuki and TokyoTosho using their RSS feeds. As for legal fees, Odex mailed their letter using their own letterhead and, from the accounts of people who received the letter, there is no indication that a lawyer was present during their meetings with Odex representatives. Which means that Odex only had to pay for at most legal advices, if anything at all. Certainly not worth 3.9 million dollars.
All that money has to go somewhere. I wonder where…
Odex has already paid all the necessary fees.
At least, that seems to be a logical assumption, since people don’t work for free. In other words, Odex created this elaborate scheme to instil fear, uncertainty and doubt into fansub downloaders, but they don’t want to have to pay for it themselves. So now they are asking you to pay up. They want to have your cake and eat it too. Also, what happens when they have collected enough to make back their original investment? I doubt it was anything more than $100,000, unless people really do pay millions(!?) of dollars for someone to scrape torrent trackers, in which case I shall end my rant here because I have a company to start up. After making back their investment, will Odex cease this futile fear mongering or will they earn some profits while they are at it? Have they already earned back their investment? I think there are a lot of questions in this area that need answering.
Odex does not have a foolproof case in court.
There is little precedence to work with, but there are many holes in their argument. The only evidence they have of your infringement is the IP address, which may not be enough. Various people have also reported that they were turned away when they went to talk to Odex with a lawyer, which is an indication that Odex is uncertain about the validity of its claims. At least one person was advised by his lawyer to ignore the letter and delete all the things he downloaded. So far Odex has not taken any actions against him. If more people refuse to pay up, Odex may be forced to either sue someone to make an example of him or to give up on this whole endeavour. If they do sue, there is no guarantee of victory and it is very hard to guess how much damages the court will award even if they win. It may even be less than $3,000-$5,000.
You are not guilty until proven so in court.
You are not obligated to show anything to Odex just because they send you a letter. You do not have to admit to anything and you should not incriminate yourself. Ask them for all the evidence they have against you. Ask them to explain clearly how each piece of evidence proves their claims. Ask them for a breakdown of the payment and why the amount varies from person to person, especially since they claim that it is supposed to be for the fees they have incurred. Do not sign anything. Seek legal advice if possible.
Odex is attempting to launch a Video-On-Demand service.
Prevent people from downloading and then launch their own service. It seemed like the perfect plan. Unfortunately, it was delayed (perhaps indefinitely), leaving people with nothing but an empty “under construction” page. Also, consider the next point…
The Odex brand is permanently tainted.
Who is going to utilize a VOD service if Odex does manage to get it up eventually? The same teenage anime fans that are defacing pictures of Stephen Sing, the other director of Odex, on HWZ now? Somehow, I don’t think so. Mr. Peter Go also mentioned in the TNP article that Odex sales fell 50% in 2006. Well, who’s taking bets for 2007? In the unlikelihood that sales actually improve, it can only be attributed to market demands generated by certain pyrotechnic displays. Seriously, I have bought Odex VCDs before and now I won’t ever again. How exactly was this supposed to be a response to poor sales again?
My General Paper teacher read about this in the papers and he thinks that Odex is just being greedy.
This is the first time my teacher has heard of Odex. His opinion is that if Odex was really working for the public good, they should have given sufficient prior warnings. It’s very sad when such an unpleasant undertaking becomes your company’s sole source of publicity for most of the population who has, until now, been completely oblivious to your existence. Contrary to the popular old saying, there is such a thing as bad publicity, especially when you are trying to sell something.
Most other forms of downloading are not affected.
HTTP, FTP, IRC, video streaming sites and a whole lot more. BitTorrent just so happens to be easily monitored due to every torrent file having its own tracker and swarm. But no US company is going to be able to log your HTTP downloads without violating some much more serious laws. While P2P file-sharing networks are vulnerable, they are much less so than BitTorrent due to the different nature in file distribution. Ultimately, this crackdown will only serve to increase the popularity of crunchyroll and similar video streaming sites, which is indeed a terrible prospect for those of us who somewhat value video quality, but does nothing for Odex’s stated goal of fighting illegal downloads.
Well, that’s a lot of typing. Maybe I’ll update this when I think of more things.
Therefore, in retrospect, all illegal downloads are AS IT IS, illegal downloads?
Meaning, what happens in the US (the Henry Jenkins’ case study) is not comparably “better” if it were to be translated to the situation in Singapore?
Then, what then?
Wouldn’t it be better if the counter suit proceeded so that once and for all, the Copyright Act can be tested to its fullest?
I don’t know. This whole situation has made me thought up of 2 opposing ideologies: on one hand, it’s in Odex’s favour since an illegal download is that, an illegal download. On the other hand, Odex’s handling of the clampdown has angered much of the fans, so much that an online death threat (now I will never believe Straits Times’ own journalists – except Andy Ho to a certain extent -, and The New Paper’s. Such vicious entities.) made him go into hiding.
Then you have the centrist. Basically, people who knew Stephen Sing and Peter Go first-hand, and are willing to make compromises with the two people to discuss on how best to make of the situation.
This entire saga has exact mirrors to a Gundam SEED/Code Geass storyline. Complete with character developments and shocking reveals.
So, what is the underlying bottomline for:
1. the general population,
2. the ones affected by the letters (the Odex-ed victims),
3. companies that deal with IP, and
4. the prospect of anime community in the future?
It’s a simple thing, everyone seems to be so stuck on the idea that if they send the letter to u that’s it and u have to fight the case in court with regards to copyright laws. However, it has been proven in US court that IP Address does not equate to your home address (meaning that you might not be the one doing the actual downloading). Cases has also been tossed out whereby the alleged file that you are downloading is not the actual file. Rename a text document with a licensed anime file name and the report results where ODEX base their claims are the same. So in short, what Odex is claiming is crap.
1. General population. I am sure most of s’poreans would have heard of this saga, and I am sure not many have great dispositions towards Odex. Come on , imagine no one has heard of your company. Suddenly it makes headlines for all the questionable reasons. What do you think their reaction will be? I mean going to the extent of fining a 9 YEAR OLD BOY?
2. Odexed victims: Well, the viable solution would be to seek legal advice 1st before proceeding. Should they choose to go court, it would be testing our copyright laws to the fullest i must say.
3.Companies that deal with IP: if you mean the ISP, they have been given the court order to reveal 1000 IP add each. Well Pacnet is appealing the case though.
4. Prospect of anime currently looks bleak. Well, since the crackdown, nt many will be d/l anime in s’pore anytime soon. however sites such as crunchyroll can let you VIEW anime online.
In short, all we can do now is hope and pray.
I am rather amused, or maybe disgusted, that some people equate “anime fans” to “anime downloaders”, and proclaim Odex the enemy of all “anime fans”. Great way to assume the role of a stereotype on behalf of the entire community, shithead. In short, all we can do now is conjure new drama to entertain ourselves until Odex makes the next move so that another wave of stupidity floods the Internets.
Anyway, if a quality VoD system does get implemented, I don’t see why anyone with a rational mind would want to boycott it. It’s a legal pass of sorts.
Darkmirage: I’m speculating that it’s a an evil but clever scheme. What are you speculating? We should all commit speculation as it’s what fuels this drama.
This is a Scanlation motto “If the publishers don’t do it right, then they don’t have the right to do it (exclusively).” This should be aply to fansubbers. If this “Odex” company’s product sucks, then yes Fansubber should bring quality entertainment to fans.
In Japanese law, it is legal to distribute work for no profit. The problem is that “Odex” have a monopoly in Singapore. It is acting a ruthless king picking of peasants. I am sure that if another company open up to compete against “Odex”, they will lose business even more and fansub will decrease. But only if the competition is much better than “Odex”.
Fansubber ethically will stop fansubbing a title if it licence in their region. But if the licenced work is worst than their own, they own it to the fan to continue their quailty works. Also, it is unethical for the fansubber to charge money, for any reason. Ture fan who fansub will never do that.
I download fansub, as I wrote before, because I can’t offord the DVDs and stuff. I am from Hong Kong, when ever I go back there, I buy the anime that I already downloaded. Real fans will do that. Also the VCDs and DVDs in Hong Kong is way cheaper than the US, and much less censoring. And always, the downloaded fansub doesn’t have the visula quality of the lisceneced DVDs and VCDs.
One thing though. Companies support fansubs because fansubs are highly popular and good publicity for an anime. With that, Anime fans will buy products related to those items like in Sg, Comics Connection.
However, With Odex stopping Fansub downloads, IT will also mean that Odex is hindering the Japs effort in making their money. Remember, YOu do not have to sell anime discs to make money. You can sell dummy swords or shurikens etc. to earn those profits. One will not make a difference but thin about it. What if millions from many different countries want those products.
So… in short, Maybe even the japs will not help odex out.
lol…pst that to the straits times review seciton…:D
im serious..
so dl from youtube those kind of website is not illegal?
It’s not so much whether is downloading anime being illegal. What’s the issue is what Odex is doing. “recycling” Odex goods might be all fine and dandy as an expression, but expressing death threats to their staff is a tad taking too far. Transparency is needed, but do they have to be transparent? As what DM said, Odex can easily survive without us with TV money, pouring vitriol on Odex alone is not going to work. What’s the intention and aims of all the anti-Odex movements? How they going to achieve it? Likewise, what’s Odex intending to achieve with all this? I believe they are as aware of us that they dont benefit with increased sales with the crackdown. So what are they in for?
Banks: “Lastly, even if Odex wanted to witchhunt, should not they be going for the ppl who DO the actual fan subbing? We, in singapore, can be considered more of the audience. It’s ppl who do the subbing overseas, and then post it on Bittorrent for us to d/l. So what is the issue involved here? Is it the censorship and subtitling issue? or is it the issue of downloading the anime itself?”
That sort of mentality is assuming that because people fansub it, you HAVE to download it. When someone gets shot, the gun companies don’t get blamed. When someone gets hit by a drunk driver, the car companies and alcohol companies aren’t blamed. We are responsible for our own actions. If you download anime that ODEX has licensed, that’s your choice. The fansubbers didn’t make you do it- you chose to do it. Simple as that.
Fansub fan: “Fansubber ethically will stop fansubbing a title if it licence in their region. But if the licenced work is worst than their own, they own it to the fan to continue their quailty works. Also, it is unethical for the fansubber to charge money, for any reason. Ture fan who fansub will never do that.”
So, myself being a fansubber, you’re telling me that I’m ethically responsible for fansubbing an anime if you feel that your local company didn’t do a decent job on bringing it to you? And not only that, but I have to fansub it for you for free? Give me a break. My fansub group is mostly based in the US, and we drop titles that get licensed by R1 companies. We owe the fans nothing. This is a hobby for us, and certainly not one worth running into legal troubles over. If you’re not happy with the product given to you by the company, there are plenty of less ethical fansubbers who’ll continue to fansub it so you can download it. But even they are not ethically obligated to you or to the show. If all else fails, get the raws and learn Japanese.
Fansub fan: “Real fans will do that. Also the VCDs and DVDs in Hong Kong is way cheaper than the US, and much less censoring.”
The R1 DVDs are rarely censored nowadays. And those that are usually make it clear on the covers that they’re censored. For some higher profile titles, companies are also starting to release censored versions for the kiddies, and uncensored for the adults.
This post makes me sound like I’m completely negative here. :p I don’t think what ODEX is doing is right; it’s clear they’re out to make a profit and it also seems to me they’re using scare tactics to try and get people to stop downloading. This was a great and very informative article, DarkMirage. Thanks for posting it.
I have seek the advice of my close friend in the police force. He is very very High up the food chain.
“Normally, the police will go after people who downloads porn. They know the IP address of the individual but not enough proof of the crime. So they get a court order and go to the house to search for proof. Like taking the PC away for investigation.” Why? Because IP address is not enough proof that there is a crime committed. What ODEX is trying to scare you into admitting that you have done some illegal downloading of Anime and ask for compensation. Well, to the the rest of the Anime fans, just ignore the old lamer letter, he is calling his bluff and up the stake. Just delete the Anime that you downloaded and reformat your hard disk, everything is gone. No proof and no evidence. Just a IP address what can he do. The government is not so stupid to issue (THREE THOUSAND) warrants to search everyone house because of one complain. Remember you are not terrorist. The Government are more interested in capturing terrorists, drugs lords, crime lords, and smuggling rings. The OLD Lamer, is scaring every individual because he know that the youngsters cannot have criminal records. Parents are frighten into submission because of the children career. Who cares? If you got guts, just change a new hard disk and up the stake by going to the police and report him 1) for extortion 2) For knowing a crime was committed and not reporting to police. Just think, change the hard disk and turn around and report him to the police. For three thousand police report filled against him, the police will halt his old lamer ass into police station for investigation. But at this junction, I am changing my hard disk and wait for the letter. As long as he demand monies from individual who didn’t admit and threaten lawsuit, it is called undue duress when no proof is submiited.
In the central police station, there are large monitors . The purpose is to monitors huge downloaders. Yet they are not taking down the downloaders, why are everyone is so worried? Called the old lamer bluff.
Hm, we should make this Odex saga into an anime, it will get really high ratings :O
Very Lucky 88,
you are the best! An IP address alone cant prove everything.
LianYL:
I have to agree that, at least in Singapore,
anime fans = anime downloaders.
I really don’t see how you can honestly argue otherwise.
Anyway you are contradicting yourself. You keep saying that anime downloaders (ala tech savvy bunch) are the minority and they are insignificant and what not. Do you honestly believe that? And if you do, who then, do you propose, is the main target audience of a VOD service?
Face it, your so-called majority of “anime fans” will continue to watch anime via YouTube and crunchyroll. Casual viewers don’t want to pay for anime. They rather watch silly flash animations if they can’t get anime for free. The only people who might have been willing to pay for a legitimate (and good) VOD service belong to the “minority” that has been screwed over.
Me? I guess I can settle for nico nico video if it really has to come to that, which I don’t think so.
n1 thanks for these pieces of useful information. Seriously, you are right to say that ODEX is permanently tainted(and hated by anime fans). By the way, there is a forum here saying that you had “spoken”. http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=178531
I have to agree with DM in regards to the overlapping role of being an anime fan in Singapore (which equates to being a downloader). The economics and accessibility issues here warrants such overlappings.
But in a sense, everybody here (or at least the majority) will agree on something: Odex’s public image has ruined beyond Iraqi ruin (may peace be upon them Iraqis, except mindless terrorists and sectarian violence inciters). It’d take a very long time for them to mend, but it’s better to close shop and set up new ones, anyways. Regardless of whether their VoD will be popular.
But an important lesson must be learned here if we are not going to let such an episode happen again. Fly away your “moral of the story” inputs here.
That’s an insightful article you got there. You raised many interesting points and it is good to hear that more and more neutral parties are spotting the loopholes of their actions.
It’s pretty clear that nobody’s on their side now. However, the thing about the govt keeping quiet about the whole fiasco until now is really strange.
Check this out if you haven’t already…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lol_odex.jpg
Surely a justified action would be respected and lauded but so far, ODEX is being lambasted left and right by the mass media, the anime community and even the neutral observers.
I would gladly pay for movie DVDs and music CDs that surely give me the quality over downloads and bootlegged copies, but I can’t say the same for locally distributed anime which incredibly reverses the trend.
This has to stop somewhere before Singapore becomes the laughing stock of the world, and this becomes the grand new profiting scheme after pyramid trading.
Again, I will not buy anything related to ODEX, just as I will not buy any magnetic beds.
this discussion somewhat provided respite from the ensuing fiasco out there.
the one thing i really can’t understand is that these odex ppl don’t have any goodwill; how do they expect their sales to grow while they give anime viewers a hard time?
Remember that most anime fans originally get acquainted to specific anime from media like torrent, irc etc.
In fact, distributors like odex should be cooperating with the fansubs and anime fans instead of making enemies outta them.
After the dust has settled, no one wins and everyone loses out.
Hang on… this looks interesting…
And seems to be contradicting what Odex is claiming.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/21/1312204
http://forums.playpark.net/showpost.php?p=1533422&postcount=562
someone made a comparison, odex vs fansub anime.
Well as Chappy has show in his link the quality ODEX produce is really sux.. who would really want to pay money for such a shitty quality even if its original.
“At least one person was advised by his lawyer to ignore the letter and delete all the things he downloaded. So far Odex has not taken any actions against him.”
Maybe Odex is busy sending letters and forgot about him, ROFL, he is one lucky dude :P
Let me make it clear i’ve got nothing against mr sing and odex. It’s just the way in which they are doing things which really makes people mad.
Well… something seems weird…
http://www.avpas.com.sg/AVPAS_Authorized.html
This list of Authorized titles… They actually include titles that aren’t even licensed yet. Doesn’t seem to make sense…
All those listed are those that are available on DVD in Japan, but that’s ridiculous for anime fans around the world as not everyone is able to understand Japanese fluently and getting said DVDs direct from Japan isn’t actually logical.
And if their reply to us not liking their product is “go buy from overseas”, how can they blame anyone for their poor sales if that’s their mentality. They don’t seem to understand anything about sales…
This is anime we’re talking about, it’s not drugs… Drugs sell themselves. They don’t need any advertising. Everything else needs to be advertised.
Why does downloaders have to pay ODEX a single cents since the version they downloaded are different from wat tat company produce. I mean the quality and picture of the anime is completely different even the translated script is different. So downloaders didn’t steal anything from them or used any part of their “intellectic brain” or whatsoever. The only things they do is juz buy the rights to sell the anime in public. So even if in the end of the case when downloaders have to pay should they only pay to the anime production company and to the goverment court? And to those who have already pay ODEX a sum of money can they get back their money? Or maybe sue them back for mayb being misleading or sumthing.?
chappy:
Thanks for reminding me. I knew I left something out. I have updated the above entry to include this point:
Thank you for the informative post.
I’ve read some local ( Japanese ) news online reporting on the Odex episode too, but its mostly cursory summaries , and does not state whatsoever any actions taken by the Japanese Studios.
Quoting DarkMirage,
“Anyway the Japanese studios are involved only as much as they choose to do nothing about anything. Odex wanted to do this and the Japanese saw no reason to object.”
I agree with this. While its only natural they the studios wouldn’t condone piracy if asked, their main resources and interests are still focused on the massive fan base they have in Japan itself – Singapore represents only a very small market by comparison.
Chappy: And seems to be contradicting what Odex is claiming.
It’s not a new concept in Japan, where game companies have been using P2P to distribute demos and demo movies. It’s fast and it’s definitely more effective than direct downloads. It’s the big corporations that refuse to embrace technologies they perceive as “encouraging piracy”.
DarkMirage: They probably do not care about what Odex does since Singapore is an insignificant market to them.
Precisely. A mere 10% of fansub downloaders in China or USA is probably many, many more than 50% of those in Singapore. So it doesn’t make any sense for them to be initiating this kind of crackdown. The industry is worried about Singapore becoming a traffic hub for pirated stuff, but these are the real pirated stuff that gets shipped to various parts of the world.
Odex has updated their site.
http://www.odex.com.sg/
Some interesting stuff.
Better way to know an issue in Singapore than from the Singaporeans themselves. :)
Thanks for clearing things up on this whole debacle. The violent factions of anime fans that have resorted to protests should wisen up. They make the anime community in Sigapore even worse to look at. :(
very nice entry :) thanks for posting this up in a clear and concise manner. I wish more people will read this entry.
“On the other hand, many other anime fans have responded by coming forward to admit that they have downloaded, and to ask for a settlement of any claims against them, even before receiving any letter from Odex.” -From the Odex website.
What does that mean? Does admitting we d/l the anime means that we get a lighter punishment?
Or will informing them that we did d/l when actually there is NOTHING against us mean that we have to pay 3k even if we were not caught?
I really wonder what’s ODEX is up to, seriously. Are they trying to do the world a favor by eradicating Anime Piracy(aka Fansubs) in Singapore, even at the cost of an unheard reputation of ODEX? If that’s the case, we should be kowtow-ing to them for their unwanted sacrifice.
However, the course of action they have taken are truely not telling us that they are doing it for the greater good of anyone other than probably themself.
Taking the tiny red dot by surprise in May 07 and followed up with the massive delivery of love letters in Aug. ODEX has been pretty successful in educating the public that they are trying to rip $ off ppl whom they claimed to had committed an offence. By throwing a list of torrent filenames and a letter at a supposedly offender, followed by a meeting which involve the paying the company a sum of $. It sounds as if its a blackmail with no concrete evidence.
Imagine someone throws u a piece used tissue, claimed that its a proof that u masturabated in class and threaten to report it to ur teacher if you don’t give him $50 to pay for his effort and mental torment just to pick this nasty piece of “Evidence”. Firstly, does the teacher care? 2ndly, why is he so sure that this piece of tissue belongs to you. 3rdly, what is his gain in doing so? Is he the director of a nearby brothel?
The 3rd rate analogy above is just a joke, take it with plentyful of salt.
ZeroG
There’s only one word to describe it : LOL
Additional reading material
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8940/RIAA%3A+%27Lawsuits+Can%27t+be+the+Only+Solution+to+Piracy%27
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8159/French+Judge+to+RIAA%3A+%22GOVT+approval+needed+to+trace+IP+addresses%22
http://bmaurer.blogspot.com/2007/02/big-media-dmca-notices-guilty-until.html
http://www.xedodefense.org/
I personally find the xedodefense’s information on 0d3x’s evidences very interesting.
*SPAM ALERT*
Hion,
that’s 3 Letters, not a word.
1 word to describe and that’s “LOL”
Chappy:
with regards to Xedodefence…. DOESNT IT CONFLICTS WITH NCH’s XEDO?!?! We better come up with a proper term for it… GG
DarkMirage:
It’s pointless to argue with you when you already have an unchangeable agenda of your own. You’ve been mixing around with too many geeks to understand that there are people who don’t know what’s a domain name nor bittorrent. Why can’t you understand that there are many anime fans that stay up late on particular nights just to catch an episode of Tsubasa Chronicles on Arts Central?
And yes I honestly believe in my point. Basically, “anime fans” are a category and “anime downloaders” are just a portion of it, ratio wise we’d never know. To generalise that every fan knows how to download anime would be foolish. Are you enclosed within your geek circle for too long a period of time that you fail to understand that there are people unlike those in your social circles?
I remember someone mentioning before that “People who don’t score well in exams are just too lazy to study.” A great display of ignorance and lack of ability to comprehend despite his great intelligence. You’re doing just the same thing now.
As for the VoD service, I never contradicted myself, you merely failed to see my point. When the minority of online loudhailers cease to exist, there will be those who embrace and appreciate the new implementation IF IF IF it’s of quality. There will be those who boycott it, but won’t sign up for it in the first place anyway. There will be those who boycott but succumb to it in the end. There will be those who’d continue to download regardless, and the letters will fly their way.
ASSUMING Odex is actually VALUING this new VoD service, they probably wouldn’t screw those who sign up. (Of course, this is just speculation, as much as what you’ve been speculating up there but being treated like the Gospel by selective-reading ethnocentrists.) If you see where my point is heading, then you’d understand there’s still a 50-50 chance for the VoD service to succeed. Holy hell, it’s a damn passport! If adequate effort is put into the VoD service, there COULD be faster-than-fansub subs. Leechers have no more excuse IF that happens.
Odex might be playing a dangerous game here by screwing the loudmouth online adolescents, but it doesn’t mean that they are surely fighting a losing war, especially when Singaporeans are famed for short-term political memory.
So is Odex actually planning out all these steps? If they are, then the VoD seems to be running late in the blueprint. A late alternative means decreasing rate of success.
But of couse, Odex could just be screwing us all together with the home video market, then settle with only TV rights. It does seem fun from all the discussions we see here. Who knows?
I used to think that most people should at least know how to use Microsoft Word. I was very wrong. There exists plenty of people who can’t understand that tapping on the keyboard while the computer’s off will not blow up the motherboard.
BTW I haven’t added the point that potential tech-embracing consumers are a marketable market.
http://forums.playpark.net/showpost.php?p=1511368&postcount=389
Now, there’s something very interesting about this post… which I feel is a bit gray…
Basically, it’s this part.
“In other words, even if you did not “distribute” or “sell” the stuff, but you violated copyright laws (and making a copy by downloading it into your system is a violation of copyright laws) … then, yes. You’re guilty.”
Technically speaking, if downloading stuff into your system is a violation of copyright laws, doesn’t that mean that downloading itself is an illegal activity? Since anything and everything you’ve downloaded isn’t owned by you, nor have you ever gotten the proper permission to engage in said activity.
Also, since I am typing this and it’s being recorded on the server that it’s written by me, don’t I own the copyright for this post? Doesn’t that also mean that you (the reader) is engaging in an illegal activity of downloading the content of this post? Aren’t you liable for plagiarism if you were to quote this post? Or to even refer to this post?
Since gun manufacturers aren’t at fault for shoot-outs, this website shouldn’t be a fault for having my copyright works shown. But you as a reader are at fault for reading this.
So, in 0d3x’s latest website update, aren’t they stealing IP from bloggers, blog repliers and forum posters? Isn’t everything about the internet a big illegal activity? Isn’t the pen + paper the worst piece of pirating instrument available in the market?
Am I rambling on too much?
btw, how many letters have been sent out already?
Quoted from Xedo Defense: “On the other hand, the harm related to disclosure of confidential information in a student or faculty member’s Internet files can be equally harmful.”
I hope the courts realize now that in forcing the ISPs to reveal personal information, it may have resulted in mostly punitive monetary claims against individuals; that the case against PacNet should be considered in a totally different light.
More harm than good is clearly evident, and will definitely open the floodgate to further abuse of licensee’ rights against non-commercial entities. If AVPAS cannot come to its senses, maybe someone higher up can be sensible enough to stop all this shit. IPOS, is this the outcome desired? If IPOS and the Jap Studios sanctioned it, why not pour in the money to do a proper campaign?
If the perception of anime downloads is to be corrected from kids and up, the first step is so, so wrong! Why is it that RIAS can do it right and not AVPAS? Because the stance for IPOS/RIAS previously was “the provision is actually not meant to target the one or two individuals who download and distribute music. The whole purpose and objective of the Act is to tackle infringers who download music wilfully and to a significant extent.” The most wilful distributors were prosecuted and the mass of downloaders properly warned. And the public respect that.
I share the same sentiments as ZeroG. All we see now are seemingly a witchhunt, wilful threats, extortions, blackmails, protests, public anger, nothing positive or ethical, and nothing learnt.
Thumbs up to DM for the entry.
LianYL:
Not every anime fan knows how to download via BitTorrent, that is for sure. I never said that.
But what about all the YouTube junkies?
What about all the second-tier consumers who get their friends to burn DVD-Rs?
When you factor in all the infringement that takes place in the community all the time, who else is left? 9-year-old kids who watch anime exclusively on TV? Even if you consider them as anime fans, they are not exactly a viable market for VOD.
Stop thinking that anime downloading = bittorrent. Nearly every single anime fan in Singapore infringes one way or another. There’s really no way of becoming an anime fan in Singapore without having pirated something. Those people staying up late to watch anime on Central? How did they come into contact with anime in the first place? They just randomly decided to stay up late to watch Central one night? Right.
By your definition of an anime fan, anyone who watches anime at all is a fan. That’s not the way I see it. The way I see, if you like anime enough to become a fan of it in Singapore, you must have done something infringing at some point in time. What is available legitimately is simply not enough to satisfy. If you can’t even be bothered to search for and obtain anime for free, you probably don’t like anime enough to pay for it when it really comes to that. Paradoxical in a way, but that’s how I see it.
The fallout of this whole unpleasant business?
The casual viewers, who were merely trying to kill time, are scared shitless by the news and left uncertain about what is risky and what is safe. They don’t care about anime. They don’t care about Odex. They will just move on to other things.
The regular fans who watch stuff on YouTube? They will probably continue doing that. Maybe occasionally obtain a free burned DVD-R from some friend. Business as usual. VOD? They don’t care.
Hardcore downloaders are pissed off. But there are other ways of getting their fix. Like YouTube or some crappy service similar to it. Or FTP servers. Or XDCC bots. Or getting a Malaysian friend to download for them. The rich ones may even import DVDs. But Odex? Forget it.
Most anime viewers I know are secondary consumers that fall into the first two categories. They watch what the hardcore downloaders burn for them. They watch the popular titles on crunchyroll and YouTube. They won’t pay a single cent for anime. They don’t see the need to. And after this whole fiasco, they still won’t.
Either way, I don’t see how this whole fiasco will benefit Odex in anyway other than possibly bringing in some quick cash and maybe a lot of publicity (bad as it may be). It also sets a terrible precedent for other media content owners to follow.
DarkMirage: I typed a looooooooong reply to you but accidentally hit the auto-backspace button on my Thinkpad and everything was gone. KNS.
Ok I shall give a concise comment of my previous reply:
1. As usual both of us are pulling statistics out of our asses. Yours is based on the statement, “Most anime viewers I know” Whereas I am claiming all possibilities, th result being only evident to Odex themselves who probably did their market research homework.
2. Animedownload == BT || Animedownload != BT. But I use the term loosely because it’s the BT users being targeted presently AND making the most noise.
3. How do YOU yourself define an anime fan?
“The way I see, if you like anime enough to become a fan of it in Singapore, you must have done something infringing at some point in time. What is available legitimately is simply not enough to satisfy.”
Your definition is based on self-lifting Japanophile pride, which is highly biased and otaku-oriented territorial prejudice. WHO is of any authority to deny the label “anime fan” of anyone who likes to watch anime on TV at their leisure time and might just purchase a box or two of home videos?
4. From your thwarted method of perceiving things, I can claim that many “fans” would sign up for the VOD service, because I would. I can’t believe you actually allow such over-generalising views into your argument.
This ends the argument, not worth me typing again. KNS I haven’t finished my module readings.
There’s even talk of Odex wanting to sue people here in Malaysia. kachinggg, more market for them…
@LianYL: I’m gonna have to agree with Darkmirage here. I’m a 20+ working adult here, so I’m in the group that can afford to buy stuff, so I’m not gonna say anything about kiddies who watch stuff on TV. Well I’m also not going to declare I’m speaking for all anime viewers but just basing on my own experience.
So the thing is, I’ve got many friends in my age group that are definitely not anime fans. They are also not geeky AFAIK. But they do know a little bit about anime, and some do watch a series or 2. And guess how do they come to know about them? I asked and it’s definitely not through Arts Central advertisements. Which busy working adult has the f*cking time to stay up at night to watch crappy soccer animes on Arts Central?? They f*cking rather watch EPL on ESPN.
And guess what they do watch? Bleach, Naruto etc. And how they know? Fansubs or through friends’ friends who dl Fansubs. Most of my friends don’t even know about Odex, but they do know about HK and Taiwan dvds. So what does that mean? Odex did not do their marketing homework where it really Matters.
As for the definition of Anime Fan. I admit it’s quite subjective. But if you ask me, staying up every night to watch backdated Tsubasa on TV does not constitute an “Anime Fan”. Perhaps if you watch Anime on TV and buy regularly from Odex, I believe that barely passes as one.
I remember 10+ years ago, staying up and recording Ranma, Orange Road, YAT, ETO Rangers etc on Channel 8. I did not even know the term “ANIME FAN” then. At that time, there was no widespread Internet nor Odex just TV, but now you see kids being very tech savvy and if you’re telling me that there are “Anime Fans” who only watch on TV and not watch Fansubs at all, wow, those kids must come from a poor family with no Internet connection and they got no friends to lend them animes to watch. Oh, and I’m not looking down on them or anything, but I seriously can’t imagine people just watching animes on TV and not knowing anything about them from the internet. And where the internet is concerned, I wonder if there are really netsurfers in Singapore who stick by the rules?
Well, I’m probably in the same category as DarkMirage here: I buy original R2 dvds from Japan, I buy Japanese mangas from Kinokuniya, I buy PC games from Japan as well. I even mod my own PC. So I’m kind of a geek and otaku combined. But working allows you to meet people and I’ve met anime watchers who’s not as geeky and not as otakuish, and seriously not many knows about Odex. Again, I’m only speaking from my own experience and this may not be representative of the general trend in Singapore.
In the meantime, I’ll just be spending my hard earned cash on getting R2 DVDs from Japan, and in 5 years time, I’ll be wondering if Odex has started selling them on VCD while I’m getting animes on BluRay.
But I’m not interested in you.
Are you gay or what? Who the f*ck needs you to be interested in him? I’m just saying out comments. So stop saying silly stuff. Unless you’re a girl, then you can forget what I said.
Impz has just put up an article on regarding a short analysis on “Odex’s clarification notice on their website”
it seems that the site of ODEX which has been down for around two months, has updated its site with a notification list.