UPDATE 20/11/2007: Note to foreign readers. This article is about Odex’s local copyright enforcement actions that took place in Singapore in mid 2007. This is not directly related to its latest international efforts. Please refer to here for discussions on the latest development.
Here is my summary of what I think of Odex’s grand scheme to dominate the local market in one daring move, and why I think they will fail terribly and spoil it for the rest of us. As some of you may or may not know, I met with Peter Go, director of Odex, twice before and had some discussions with him long before the start of the on-going fiasco (after he read my letter). At that time, I promised him that I would not reveal anything that was said during our private conversations, so I shall honour that promise. Not that I have a need to, now that Odex has shown its hand and everything has been made public. Anyway, just hoping to clear up some FUDs that have been making their rounds in every single forum thread on the topic.
Anti-Video Piracy Association of Singapore (AVPAS) is not affliated to the government.
Never was, never will be.
Odex is the sole active member of AVPAS.
Although Odex is inconspicuously in the middle of the member list of AVPAS, it is not too much a stretch to say that AVPAS is essentially Odex and not much more. Basically it’s like how music labels use RIAA to redirect the bad publicity away from their brand names, except that Odex is failing horribly at it because they were too lazy to create a letterhead for AVPAS and decided to use their own instead. Big mistake.
Odex is not, and has never been, the dominant proliferator of anime in Singapore.
They may be the one with all the licensing rights, but exponential growth of anime’s popularity seen locally was not their doing. Odex VCDs and DVDs have never received the level of acceptance and respect given to R1 DVDs by the American anime community. With or without BitTorrent.
Odex employees download fansubs.
According to various personal blogs belonging to related individuals. Or just common sense. I mean, the only reason why those people are working for Odex is because they are anime viewers. Where do almost all Singaporean fans get their anime fix from? Hint: it ain’t packaged in silver. Are their employees being issued similar letters?
Not all the AVPAS titles are licensed for local distribution.
Although Odex is the only active member of AVPAS, it does have the consent of the Japanese studios to act on behalf of them. Odex is empowered, through its own creation AVPAS, to defend the copyrights of these studios, whether or not the works in question are licensed for distribution by Odex. This can be said to be very unfair because many of the items are not legally available in Singapore except through expensive parallel importing and the actual damages done by illegal downloading to Odex’s business is therefore zero for these particular titles. Still, it appears that Odex does indeed have the right to represent the interest of those Japanese studios and thus it is within their abilities to sue for certain titles that they do not hold the distribution rights for.
The Japanese studios are not directly involved.
As far as I can tell, the Japanese studios did not initiate this. They probably do not care about what Odex does since Singapore is an insignificant market to them. From what little information is available, it appears that AVPAS was created initially to target commercial bootlegging, for example in 2004 they won a case against a local retail chain to raid their warehouse. This suggests that the Japanese studios authorized Odex to represent their interests so as to fight what they perceive to be commercial piracy. Whether or not this authorization is now being misused by Odex for their own agendas is highly questionable.
Odex did not send any warnings.
When a local blogger first mentioned in passing that Odex was going to take legal actions, they denied it and refused to comment on it. Then one day the letters started flying out of the blue and immediately started to demand money. This really makes one question Odex’s intention.
As a private entity, Odex cannot file a criminal suit.
Although they mentioned “fines of $10,000 per item and imprisonment of 5 years” in their letter, Odex can do nothing of that sort. They can launch a civil suit against you and if they win they can claim damages incurred. But they cannot force the relevant authorities to press criminal charges against you. That is up to the government to decide.
Neither can Odex prevent any criminal charges.
Even if you pay Odex their $3,000 or so, there is nothing to stop the government from pressing criminal charges against you. Copyright infringement is a criminal offence in Singapore. Odex can do nothing to interfere with that. In fact, even if they promise not to sue you themselves, there is nothing that legally prevents them from reporting you to the relevant authorities. In fact, it would be illegal for them to make such a promise.
Odex claims $3,000-$5,000 settlement is for legal and tracking fees.
With 1,000 subpoenaed IP addresses per ISP for SingNet, Starhub and PacNet, we end up with exactly 3,000 IP addresses being affected. Let’s very generously estimate that PacNet manages to appeal successfully and protect the identity of its subscribers and that 1/3 of the addresses are either duplicates (due to dynamic IP assignment) or otherwise unsuitable for Odex’s purpose (e.g. employees, friends and/or relatives). We are still left with about 1,300 or so targets. Let’s assume that everyone only has to pay, on average, $3,000. That is a total of 3.9 million dollars we are talking about, and that is the low end assumption. It can potentially be twice as much if you change a few variables.
According to this The New Paper article, Odex enlisted the help of a US company in tracking BitTorrent downloads. It doesn’t take 3.9 million dollars to run a bunch of servers to auto-scrape at regular intervals every torrent file posted on AnimeSuki and TokyoTosho using their RSS feeds. As for legal fees, Odex mailed their letter using their own letterhead and, from the accounts of people who received the letter, there is no indication that a lawyer was present during their meetings with Odex representatives. Which means that Odex only had to pay for at most legal advices, if anything at all. Certainly not worth 3.9 million dollars.
All that money has to go somewhere. I wonder where…
Odex has already paid all the necessary fees.
At least, that seems to be a logical assumption, since people don’t work for free. In other words, Odex created this elaborate scheme to instil fear, uncertainty and doubt into fansub downloaders, but they don’t want to have to pay for it themselves. So now they are asking you to pay up. They want to have your cake and eat it too. Also, what happens when they have collected enough to make back their original investment? I doubt it was anything more than $100,000, unless people really do pay millions(!?) of dollars for someone to scrape torrent trackers, in which case I shall end my rant here because I have a company to start up. After making back their investment, will Odex cease this futile fear mongering or will they earn some profits while they are at it? Have they already earned back their investment? I think there are a lot of questions in this area that need answering.
Odex does not have a foolproof case in court.
There is little precedence to work with, but there are many holes in their argument. The only evidence they have of your infringement is the IP address, which may not be enough. Various people have also reported that they were turned away when they went to talk to Odex with a lawyer, which is an indication that Odex is uncertain about the validity of its claims. At least one person was advised by his lawyer to ignore the letter and delete all the things he downloaded. So far Odex has not taken any actions against him. If more people refuse to pay up, Odex may be forced to either sue someone to make an example of him or to give up on this whole endeavour. If they do sue, there is no guarantee of victory and it is very hard to guess how much damages the court will award even if they win. It may even be less than $3,000-$5,000.
You are not guilty until proven so in court.
You are not obligated to show anything to Odex just because they send you a letter. You do not have to admit to anything and you should not incriminate yourself. Ask them for all the evidence they have against you. Ask them to explain clearly how each piece of evidence proves their claims. Ask them for a breakdown of the payment and why the amount varies from person to person, especially since they claim that it is supposed to be for the fees they have incurred. Do not sign anything. Seek legal advice if possible.
Odex is attempting to launch a Video-On-Demand service.
Prevent people from downloading and then launch their own service. It seemed like the perfect plan. Unfortunately, it was delayed (perhaps indefinitely), leaving people with nothing but an empty “under construction” page. Also, consider the next point…
The Odex brand is permanently tainted.
Who is going to utilize a VOD service if Odex does manage to get it up eventually? The same teenage anime fans that are defacing pictures of Stephen Sing, the other director of Odex, on HWZ now? Somehow, I don’t think so. Mr. Peter Go also mentioned in the TNP article that Odex sales fell 50% in 2006. Well, who’s taking bets for 2007? In the unlikelihood that sales actually improve, it can only be attributed to market demands generated by certain pyrotechnic displays. Seriously, I have bought Odex VCDs before and now I won’t ever again. How exactly was this supposed to be a response to poor sales again?
My General Paper teacher read about this in the papers and he thinks that Odex is just being greedy.
This is the first time my teacher has heard of Odex. His opinion is that if Odex was really working for the public good, they should have given sufficient prior warnings. It’s very sad when such an unpleasant undertaking becomes your company’s sole source of publicity for most of the population who has, until now, been completely oblivious to your existence. Contrary to the popular old saying, there is such a thing as bad publicity, especially when you are trying to sell something.
Most other forms of downloading are not affected.
HTTP, FTP, IRC, video streaming sites and a whole lot more. BitTorrent just so happens to be easily monitored due to every torrent file having its own tracker and swarm. But no US company is going to be able to log your HTTP downloads without violating some much more serious laws. While P2P file-sharing networks are vulnerable, they are much less so than BitTorrent due to the different nature in file distribution. Ultimately, this crackdown will only serve to increase the popularity of crunchyroll and similar video streaming sites, which is indeed a terrible prospect for those of us who somewhat value video quality, but does nothing for Odex’s stated goal of fighting illegal downloads.
Well, that’s a lot of typing. Maybe I’ll update this when I think of more things.
@LianYL: That’s a very weak reply from you. Everyone should be open-minded and free to take in comments from all sides of the story.
We’ve seen 0d3x’s side of the story, and now we’ve all the “anime fans”* side of the story…
Somehow this reminds me of the whole “Pay increase for ministers” incident… Will they listen to the people who matter (consumers in 0d3x’s case and the citizens in the ministerial pay increase’s case) or will they listen to the people who have the money?
Interestingly enough, this whole fiasco has created lots of waves, not just with regards to anime, but to the whole copyright law itself… This is from today’s Today (sound kinda stupid if you ask me… today’s Today. How about yesterday’s Today? Or last wednesday’s Today? Tomorrow’s Today anyone?)
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/206667.asp
* I placed “” for the term anime fans cos there doesn’t seem to be any real definition as to what constitutes an anime fan/fanatic.
Lian YL: WHO is of any authority to deny the label “anime fan†of anyone who likes to watch anime on TV at their leisure time and might just purchase a box or two of home videos?
And how committed do you think these people are to paying for – and sticking with – Odex’s new VoD service? “Fans” who are half-hearted have other ways of spending their leisure time, and anime might very well be low in their priority list. Those who’d buy “a box or two” can easily spend their money on something else.
In marketing we call these laggards, and given Odex’s history of PR and marketing flops, if these people are their core market, then good luck to them.
Anime is big money in Japan not because it’s a national obsession. It’s still a niche market there, but it’s good money because it’s a niche market that’s willing to splurge.
After all those years in this business, and you mean Odex still doesn’t get it?
LianYL:
My definition of an anime fan is the one that should matter to Odex: Someone who enjoys it enough to be willing to pay for anime (whether or not he possesses the ability or means to).
The fact that you are open to a VOD service only shows that Odex has indeed benefited from the fact that you frequently download and expose yourself to anime.
I’m sure a lot of people like you are willing to use a VOD service if they can overcome their dislike for Odex. But the fact is that Odex is not making it any easier for them to do just that. And will casual viewers be as willing, considering the fact that YouTube and crunchyroll are free and convenient?
Also, you make the assumption that, as a company, Odex has done sufficient and representative market research. That’s a pretty baseless assumption to make and certainly not a valid defence against external criticisms. I’m sure most failed ventures were pretty confident of their market research too.
@Yoshi: Well, I feel that the reason 0d3x doesn’t get it is because they are following my business model.
The rules in my business model:
1) YOU are always right. NEVER admit that you’re wrong and that the customers are right. It makes you look incompetent.
2) Monopolize. Once you control the market, you control the profits.
3) Do anything for profits. Even if it means killing your customers for it. Because you can always get more customers later on since you’ve accomplished (2).
4) Always remember (1) at all times.
Well, if you follow this business model, everything should work out fine. Seems to work fine for a few companies*…
On a more serious note, 0d3x believes that anime downloaders are only downloading because it’s free and Singaporeans are always looking for a free deal. Unfortunately, that’s not always the case. Probably, at least half of the people who download anime actually do care about the quality of the subs and not only that, they actually do follow certain fansub groups. Popular animes are usually subbed by many different groups but for this group of “fans”, quality and consistency are most important. That’s why some people only download from Lunar before they dropped Bleach, and why Static-Subs are the preferred choice when it comes to Mai-Hime and Mai-Otome. They both produce quality subs, great translations (with additional translator notes) and on top of that, they actually bother to translate signboards in the shows.
There has been many times, when I watch anime, that I get annoyed when translations aren’t present either when people are talking or when they show japanese characters on the screen. From a film-makers point of view, everything shown on the screen is shown for a reason. It can’t be helped that we don’t understand Japanese, since it’s not in the school syllabus, so it would be best if the people doing the translation actually translate anything and everything on the screen that is related to help the story move forward.
Such lack of quality can be due to laziness, but don’t anyone in 0d3x, or any company doing translations for that matter, feel insulted that these “fansubbers” are doing a better job at subtitling than those who are paid to do it? Don’t they feel retarded that they’re being out-shined by people who work for free, doing fansubs as a HOBBY? Wouldn’t it be a great idea if these fansub groups are contracted to produce top quality subs instead? I’m not talking about the groups that produce translations like “The Yellow car is the race car of the big tree”. I’m talking about the kind that produce translations like “Daiki’s EK will race downhill”.
If you’re hoping for people to buy your products, you must first be able to prove that it’s worth their money. We don’t want our children to wear flammable pajamas or play with poisonous toys. People will pay good money for goods that are worth that money.
What ever the case, this is my post and this are my ideas. If anyone is going to use any of my ideas, I hope you would at least give me credit for it. I’m not looking for royalties of any sort. I’m just interested in the acknowledgment.
* Not going to mention names…
DM:
Why are you not in school? Too pro is it?
Shit I have to study UTPro and KonFuseus while you have time to reply.
To all others:
I’m not interested in all of you.
One thing I am quite unsure of, is downloading of anything that are related to tokyo tv like jdrama illegal???
Lol @LianYL.
What a funny guy. Oh well, can’t blame him. I’d be tired to think of replying to other’s crap to my posts as well.
I guess he won’t be interested anyways if I call him a douche bag or a turd sandwich.
chappy: Well, if you follow this business model, everything should work out fine. Seems to work fine for a few companies*…
Works fine for those “few companies” because they are providing a basic need, not a “want” that people can do without. And besides, those are true monopolies because you have no other viable option. :)
LianYL: To all others: I’m not interested in all of you.
Think you’ll fit nicely into Odex’s corporate culture. :)
Lol. I agree… LianYL must be really tired after all that reading, especially from all my crap.
Well, just hope no one signs the letter that they make you sign after you pay them…
It looks suspiciously like a trap. Very dodgy that one…
What? Now you guys yearn for my attention? Grow up kids.
Why should I bother when you are just regurgitating whatever DM has said? Fools.
Hah, this coming from a kid who who’s still studying and living off his parents’ money. No offense to other kiddies of course. I’m an anime fan by my own right and money and my own actions. Don’t put me together with DM, little boy.
And no offense to DM of course.
so anyone in for a cake? LOL
http://www.odex.com.sg/
(LOL under construstion for about “how long?” (6~9 month?) and this is what we GET?)
Any way odex now making a bloody bad name for themself which i think is stupid… AND!!! anyone got photos for the burning on Aug 19 2007. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE colour of the FIRE XD… (those people who own up after some people kanna letter dun have to comment on this)
And for some people who is arguing down here can take this time and study for your exams and stop dropping hair on this circle of nowhere.
just wanna know IF anyone who willing to buy anime in DVD (high quality) just to support? AND what if there is a latest releast on VCD (sub english/dub japan) like claymore, naruto etc… will u buy it instead of downloading it?
I’ll definately buy claymore. It’s a great show and, IMO, worth the money. But of course, quality quality quality. Probably get from those Americans, since their products are 2nd only to Japan.
And I will never, EVER buy vcds. What’s the point when it’s seriously inferior to DVDs…
Getting them straight from Japan sounds so great… But quite retarded since I’m not fluent in Japanese…
its funny why talking bout licensed anime.
well blue max did take naruto for their company but do we actually see them complaining? Though its just one title but its sales of its vcd version is very good. naruto and bleach can be counted in SG as the more popular anime up to date. people who get naruto online is also hurting their market but yet they still produce their vcds and dvds out and only in jap audio and eng subs and not complaining or trying to sue here and there.
Blue max may not be a full anime distributing company like odex but i’m just taking one popular anime from each of them to compare,. Examples Naruto and Bleach/Inuyasha
If any one have any feedback/opinions, please do give
many thanks
Regards
Man…i will buy it if there is a good encoding and subbing version…but def not odex version!
& LianYL…chill man…There is no need to get so work up…that goes for the rest of us…I understand the anxiety in everyone but there is really no point in getting so work up!
Well you see.. as i was saying…
“AND what if there is a latest releast on VCD (sub english/dub japan) like claymore, naruto etc… will u buy it instead of downloading it?”
maybe i was not clear… my meaning was what IF there is a “LATEST RELEAST” for claymore, naruto etc available in singapore in VCD/DVD in high quality (Japan dub/English sub) every week… will you buy it or will you still download it instead… IF ANYONE do know what i was thinking PLEASE REPLY!!!
@Shiro: True true… too much stress… I guess there’s no real doubt about it. Everyone’s complaining about quality. But please, please remember what you’ve said/bragged. If 0d3x were to miraculously change itself and distribute anime of similar quality to the American releases, please live up to your word and buy their DVD.
On that note, if 0d3x is actually reading this post of mine, let it be on this web-based record, that I would like 0d3x to NOT have their company name printed so boldly on the front. If you must, keep it in some really, really small corner* so as to not “uglify” the DVD covers and DVD. Same goes to Singapore censorship board. Please, please (I’m trying to ask very nicely here) don’t paste those ugly stickers on the DVDs and DON’T EVER, EVER paste your stickers on my DVD imports. I prefer to keep my purchases in tip top condition. This includes not having scratches, smudges, sticker residue and, most definitely, NO UNWANTED STICKERS**.
Oh, and another thing. Try and make it exactly the same as the Americans, just in region 3. Their DVDs sometimes have holographic finishes to the cover, along with nicer printings of the covers. All these little details are important. It’s like being in a relationship; The little things count.
Take care 0d3x. And may we pray that you read this post and don’t f*ck up from now on.
* When I say small, I mean small… really, really small.
** Apologies for my caps, but I get seriously annoyed when the postal office open my imports without my consent and the censorship board pasting their stickers on the cover. I dare them to rip open my figurines and slap a sticker on their revealing asses.
@LianYL : If you’re not interested in us, go email DM instead of posting publicly on his blog.
well, even if they won the case ( Since no one really got the guts to fight the case ), i will not buy OD3X also no matter what the most i turn to manga to easy my pain i also won’t spend a single cents on ODEX product.
The most i and my group of friends share among ourself to purchase DVD from US , less censored and more accurate translation and the BOSS also not so sucky(not like OD3X one).
Yeah I hate Censorship Board Stickers as well. I ruined a few English dvd covers trying to remove them. Bloody eyesores. Why can’t they use Japanese stickers?? Man you should go look at Kinokuniya books, the price tag stickers they use are the relatively non sticky type. You can remove them with little to no trace. The authentic Japanese stickers in Japan are even better! They have this little corner without any gum, and there’s a little arrow pointing to the corner which says “Please remove sticker from this corner” in Japanese! F*cking ingenious! And they are just slightly more sticky than post-its!
Unfortunately sticky and hard to remove stickers are a lot cheaper to buy.
@miyamiya Your definition of authority made you more of a moron, FOOL. I guess I have more say than you then, I started selling finger puppets in P1 at twice the cost price. Were you asking TUCKSHOP MONEY from your parents then?
I shall practise one-liners for fools for now on, saves time.
@dKiWi
So this is now your blog?
Idiots.
Hey, my favourite food is turd sandwich! I like to keep it fresh by storing it in a douche bag.
@DKiWi Since you’re so bothered about DM’s blog, why don’t you just ask DM to allow you to be his manager? Then I guess you can delete all of LianYL’s posts if you want, and get him to email DM (or you) instead.
==; i hope someone is here to save the day…
@AnimeFreak!!!: Muhahaha. That would be me.
Jaja!!! Sai-Kang Warrior is here, to save the day!
Anyway, everyone please chill. Enough of attacks towards DKiWi (his name is first cos his name is on my screen as I’m typing this), LianYL, miyamiya or anyone for that matter (Poor me included). Tension is definitely high, as everything that’s happened so far is, IMO, unnecessary to begin with and money, lots of money ($3000-$5000 is a lot to most of us, since we’re not elites and we/our parents don’t make over $1million a year sleeping at National Day Rallies*).
So please, everyone, just for the next few days, till the fate of those PacNet subscribers are heard, just keep it cool and just take it all in. No apologies needed, cos I’ll do that on behalf of everyone.
I’m sorry for what everyone on this blog comment section have said if you feel offended by it.
Thanks and have a great dinner.
*http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=178693
Kill Odex. IT must be Eliminated at all cost.
They try to bring the anime community down. But it us who is going to hunt them down.
@LianYL: Wow so you’ve been living on finger puppet money your whole life. Nice. You’re amazing. Woohoo, I’m so humbled. Yeah, I guess busy looking after my bedridden granddad while I was young did warrant me Tuckshop Money from my parents. Yeah I feel so ashamed. You’re the man Lian. I’ve got nothing more to say. I guess I’m proud that Singaporean youths nowadays have so much respect for their older peers. Nice.
@chappy: No need to apologize. Posts are for anonymous people to rant away their stress for the sake of fun. I’m just enjoying poking fun at Lian’s posts. I’m sure he is having fun insulting people as well. See, all is cool.
Ehh… my comp dies and i return only to see another pagefull of eyecandy…
Glad to know that an ISP is finally attempting to stand up for its customers… (well ok Starhub tried too, so what does it say about the other unnamed one?)
What ever thoughts i’d conjured up while reading have been forgotten as i continued reading, so comments will be few. Cept for the business model one by Chappy, if these models work, i’d quit school too and start some random venture. Who knows i just might make billionaire befor i hit 40…
Good job on the post DM. As usual, thinking is too much of a chore for me, so i’d never be seen typing any such thing.
As for the not signing the letter thingy, can’t say much bout it. It’s over and done with, mom went and did it and the fine too.. =_=.
Maybe some really brave sould will really take them to court, then maybe we’d be able to seek some form of reddress.
In the meantime, i’ll stick to mangas and leaching off friends i guess.. *sigh*
@MiyaMiya: chill out, dude. ‘That guy’ sells dolls and watch anime on Arts Central every nights so he does not have that much of patience anymore.
I don’t like badmouthing people, well, but you see, this guy who thinks he knows the best is getting on my nerves.
@chappy: it’s obvious that we doesn’t have a good idea and only wait, complains and comment…(whats more we fighting over small things and you said you save the day)(and 1 less post from anyone and it will stop)
@miyamiya: if u really have grown up and you should know when is best to chut* up consider who ever immature provoke you (either way your reply tells me your a kid/boy/brat under stress)
@AntiOdex: this is not your usual MMORPG where you hate a guy, you spam him, KS him, Defame him and after all that you PK…
@LianYL: nothing to say about you (i’ll just end up arguing with him/her too)
Hehe. Fine I’ll stop here. I know I’m being childish but hey, we can post anything we want here. I’m sure people are laughing at our buttful of jokes. Afterall, we are all F*cktard #1 and Asshole #2 and etc. It’s been fun anyways.
Ok, on to more serious stuff.
@AnimeFreak: For your question on latest Vcds/Dvds. I don’t think I’m in the right position to answer your questions here. Since I’m one who spends quite a sum of money on parallel imports from Japan, I’m more inclined to support the original stuff than get from local ones. I’m afraid you need someone from a different group to sincerely answer your question.
But if I were to take on a Singaporean objective point of view, looking at the average Singaporean net-surfing trends and habits, I have to admit not all will be encouraged to pay money for something that can be free. Face it, this is Singapore, everyone is cheap one way or another.
@miyamiya: 1st: none of us are F*cktard #1 and Asshole #2 and etc UNLESS you said you are one of them
2nd: what if the VCD/DVD product is just a beta version of the full? as you see 1ep ONLY VCD/DVD why care making it so nice seens it’s not full or for collection.
and what if the local product happens to be other company and not from O***? will you still buy local product? (of cause with good quality)
(Odex have turn to a bad word… maybe for me only… Ghost Hunting ComingSoon)
And your view: But if I were to take on a Singaporean objective point of view, looking at the average Singaporean net-surfing trends and habits, I have to admit not all will be encouraged to pay money for something that can be free. Face it, this is Singapore, everyone is cheap one way or another.
That will be a challenge would it?
Like they said “throw enough mud at the wall and some of it will stick”
Now O*** doing the other way round by splashing water and wash off the mud
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/throw_enough_mud_at_the_wall%2C_some_of_it_will_stick
@miyamiya
Respect for older peers? This is the Internet, I don’t know who the heck you are. In this anonymous environment, should I be bothered about age claims? Foolishness has no age-limit.
Respect is to be EARNED, not EXPECTED. This line holds more truth than ever when online.
The finger-puppet sales was something I made up to display how flawed your definition of authority is. Your further elaboration on your past just hilariously contradicted your previous point. If you fail to even read between the wide-gaping lines, I don’t see how you deserve any respect at all.
@AnimeFreak
From the way you perceive my personality online, I might just be a foul-mouthed angry adolescent. But if you even have an ounce of intelligence, look beyond the personal attacks and read the lines. I don’t see how anyone could be siding with a self-claimed adult who sulks about how younger people won’t give him any respect when he repeatedly displays acts of ignorance, short-sightedness and bluntly put, stupidity.
Sigh, I guess I feel old. Maybe I should really shut up. I can’t really keep up with you peeps. I give up. Have a nice day.
From the AVPAS site
Should the copyright owners’ attempts (through Odex) to amicably resolve matters be rejected by any downloader, then the copyright owners are free to commence legal proceedings against the downloaders to claim all remedies that they are entitled to claim under Singapore law, including damages, an injunction, and legal costs
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t mean Odex itself would not seek legal action against you, the COPYRIGHT OWNERS aka the ANIME STUDIOS will “commence legal proceedings” if you don’t pay the $3000. Well in this case, I doubt there is a snowball’s chance in hell that they (the studios) would sue you, having no such erroneous policy against fansubbers for the most part.
@LianYL: haiz~ what the heck have I got myself into… i didn’t say i’m a adult and who the F*** respect you with such a bad mouth/hand who only know how to look down on people and if you hate any comment given by us THEN FOR GOD’s SAKE DUN READ OUR POST… JUST LOOK OUT FOR DM’s POST AND IT’s HELL EASIER FOR YOU AND FOR US
Everyone definitely has their own views regarding the ODEX issue. I do have my own share of disliking what odex is doing and definitely will have a bad image of odex in the future. I do also admit, I watched animes. BUT all this do not just arise from nowhere: Considering the fact i do support odex in the past for some of the anime series. One of the first few animes that odex brought was Hunter X Hunter, at that point of time. the 1st thought that came to me was: “Hey, finally the anime population is going to grow in Singapore. “, with the introduction of anime vcds, the belief of ‘awareness of anime not = cartoons and definitely worth watching among all ages’ will grow, in which I was partially correct, unfortunately.
Anime supporters did grow in numbers definitely but towards downloaders. During that time, licensed fansubs are not so common. One of the most common sites listed for anime (bit torrent) is animesuki, where they did make clear that fansubs violates copyrights but once a certain anime is licensed, they would remove it from their sites. (Quoted : http://www.animesuki.com/doc.php/licensed/ ) In which you need to give them a pat on their shoulders, they are still insisting on their viewpoint now. ( I did drop quite many anime series in the past once they got licensed )
‘Licensed animes fansubs’ are not so common in the past compare to now, which i believe the impact came from the licensed of popular anime series: Naruto. Naruto was at the top of weekly downloads till the news came up that Naruto has been licensed. This took a turn for changes in event where they announced they will still sub Naruto, to the pleasure of the people watching it. The impact from it was insignificant at that time which is more obvious nowadays. Fansub groups normally do not stop fansubbing once the anime is licensed by a certain group (rightful groups of people like Bandai and Viz not groups like ODEX).
Anyway. after Hunter X Hunter, i did watch another popular series from ODEX – Gundam Seed. Comments? 1. lousy quality ( as commented by odex is due to vcd quality- they not confident by DVD sales. Ok fine, I let go of this fact )
2. What happened to the OPs and EDs? One of the most important part of an anime is the OP and ED (opening and ending theme), they practically used the 1st op and ed through out ( if they have gotten the license to sell in Singapore, what the hell was that?)
3. Fansub quality? Thank goodness, gundam has more of actions that storyline, or i guess another case of chinese direct translation again (quoting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lol_odex.jpg )
Well, once bitten twice shy. I do not really bothered with ODEX stuff after that. I did recommend people who are 1st time anime-goers to try watching Naruto and Bleach ( they did buy the vcds) but i already got too picky about quality to watch anything with vcd quality.
Ok, BACK TO THE REASON why I wrote. Anyway what I think might actually happened next, regarding issues about VoD. What I believed ODEX is trying to do here is price-targeting, since they are after all a company where the main purpose is to maximise profits, what I believed is that they don’t have the scarcity power in the market, anime market is definitely not small in Singapore but it is not that big either. The way they are trying to do up this issue I feel that it has totally gone wrong. Even 1st time businessmen do know something about how much reputation as an intangible asset is so much importance to a business and definitely it all boils down to time. In a short time frame where ODEX trying to implement VoD? Likelihood? The subtitle quality and perhaps anime quality won’t be good, of course these are speculations, but given their way of handling things, I am really not able to imagine them to re-sub animes and to get the good quality of all the anime series to put up. Good quality could take up GBs or even TBs to obtain a considerably high quality of video streaming( well a possible reason I could think now of odex not able to achieve that will be good quality +streaming = long time to load = not feasible ) What they plan do with the DVD market, I have no interests to know. It is after all the business model that determines that actions that a company takes, so unless they do make some changes to the way the company operates, ODEX can just go fly kite all I care.
LianYL: I definitely understand where you are coming from. But try taking up this issue on a more subjective manner, indeed i am still displeased about the way ODEX operates, but that is from a economics and business point of view and not from a anime viewer’s point of view. Just think about how the business operates infinitely on a long term and how Japan even though they screen animes on TVs, the anime market is still able to grow there. It all boils down to how the business decide to operate and how the consumers response, consumers not necessarily will bite what the business offers. They do have alternatives and other choices affecting what they will do.
(While you are busy reading UTPro and KonFuseus, I am also busy reading up Economics, principles of Accounting and priniciples of Finance )
What company produce the most quality anime dvd boxsets Jap/Lang Eng/Sub?
Has anyone else noticed that the list of authorized titles has been updated?
Code Geass and Haruhi are on the updated list.
@chappy Oh yeah,I def will buy it if the quality is good!For the things that I like, I don’t care about the cost as long as the quality is good and thats the truth. But if you give me that trash @ a great pricing of $9.90,I will say to hell to them!Bought it once and it went straight to the bin…No negotiation…I believe that there are many others A-typical Singaporeans out there too who has the same view as me.
And guys…Chill!!! @LianYL Don’t let what other says bother you. You have your own view and they have theirs too. One man’s meat is another poison right? So just calm down,take a deep breathe and let it go otherwise it will never end. I know I have no right to say this…but try to keep your temper in check,it is not nice to make fun of people’s intelligence. By reciprocating with grace,that is a true gentleman.
@DKiWi I believe we have no rights to deleting LianYL post…If we are doing that,won’t we be setting a bad example…not respecting other’s freedom of speech?So chill 2!
@AnimeFreak & @miyamiya…try to chill too…I understand your view and how you feel about his postings, but there is really no point in arguing…We should consolidate our effort to help those in need instead of arguing over here.
Sidenote: Not that I particularly notice what LianYL wrote.. just that while scrolling down alot ppl was commenting what was written, hence went to read what was commented. I’m not saying who is right or who is wrong, it all boils down on what perspective an individual looking at this matter from. Hence this is what I feel personally, of course I not suggesting anything.
(I am not liable to forms of damages of reputation damages to any names/ companies especially mentioned in the above written. From what i googled, there are similar names that are JUST similar. For example, http://www.midnightsundrilling.com/ODEX_system.html . )
Bleahz =p
@Shiro: agree with you and read a lot of stuff about it but no one came up with a good idea and some are doing things like this.
http://odex-rebellion.blogspot.com/
does this even solve the problem we are having right now or are we making more trouble till government have to butt in and stop O*** or US?
Sorry to post again. Proof of ODEX = AVPAS. Everything was done up today.
http://www.avpas.com.sg/
http://www.odex.com.sg/
Same stuff, same content, same day.
“Odex was appointed to conduct the present enforcement drive because it is the largest distributor of anime in the region, and it has conducted successful enforcement actions in the past in relation to the sale of pirated anime VCDs and DVDs.”
Appointed? whom by? Your puny little AVPAS committee? Did the associate members have any say in the matter?
“It is not just the higher end of the retail chain which is missing out. Consumers are unknowingly left shortchanged when they buy pirated video products. There is little difference in price between original and pirated copies, so if the consumer buys pirated copies they are purchasing a poorer quality product with less choices in digital options(language, subtitles and background chapters) ~ basically the consumer is receiving less value for money.The rampant video piracy threatens to compromise Singapore’s positions both as a multi-media hub and a knowledge-based economy. ”
Oh sure, my free h264 or better rips are of poorer quality than your VCDs.
“At present, there are more than 3,000 IP addresses that are the subject of court orders already issued, or of pending applications in court. Some reports have referred to Odex obtaining information relating to 1,000 IP addresses from each ISP. This is inaccurate. None of the ISPs assigns unique IP addresses to their subscribers, and it is highly unlikely that 1,000 IP addresses would in fact translate to the identification of 1,000 different subscribers – i.e. the figure would be much less.”
THE Figure would be much less? Correct me if I’m being a dunderhead but, a shared IP address means that dozens or hundreds are using a single IP for internet connections. That’s why wikipedia can’t detect whether I’m a spammer or a normal reader.
“Should the copyright owners’ attempts (through Odex) to amicably resolve matters be rejected by any downloader, then the copyright owners are free to commence legal proceedings against the downloaders to claim all remedies that they are entitled to claim under Singapore law, including damages, an injunction, and legal costs.”
Correct me if I’m wrong again, but does this not mean that the COPYRIGHT OWNERS (the anime studios) CAN choose to commence legal proceedings?
@1souls: I’m not too sure about which produces the best quality products, but I believe Viz, FUNimation and Bandai all produce good quality products. But to date, IMO, they aren’t better than fansubs, but they have really really good quality products. I guess they’ll overshadow the fansubs soon once they start releasing anime on BluRay.
@quendidil: Code Geass was on that list already. But I don’t remember Haruhi being there… I could have overlooked that one.
In that clarification article, Odex seem to using the phrase “enforcement drive” very frequently, I wonder why? Mayhap the batrachomyomachia is all some stupid drive to strike fear into our hearts? Make us stop downloading? Furthermorel, if they claim to have been “authorised by the AVPAs,…,to take all steps necessary to protect and enforce the copyrights subsisting in more than 400 anime titles”, they do not, have direct approval from the studios to “commence legal proceedings”, their lot is just the sending of letters and threats. If the Japanese industry really wanted to enforce “copyrights” the whole doujin industry would never have developed.
Odex have also claimed to had “conducted successful enforcement actions in the past in relation to the sale of pirated anime VCDs and DVDs.” Take note, this was the SALE for PROFIT of the discs, the cases then and now are quite different aside from the common issue of piracy, or in other words, copyright infringement.
I’d really like to know the views of the Japanese studios on this matter, maybe DM or someone fluent enough in Japanese could write to the studios, asking them for confirmation?
Woot! New comment system!
Don’t mind me, carry on.